A different cut on beginners' classical music

Started by Fëanor, January 27, 2008, 11:46:33 AM

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Fëanor

I thought I would share with you another person's opinion on what a new classical listener, or one who hasn't acquired a taste for classical music, ought to listen to for an entrée to the genre.  The lady whose thoughts I'm referring to is very obviously a person with long, extensive, and varied appreciation of music, including classic.  She is clearly entitled to her opinions.  Nevertheless I think many hardcore classical lovers will take some exception to her comments:  have a look and see if you agree.

In any case they are fascinating comments and lists:

Teresa's Classical Music for Folks who Don't Like Classical Music ...
http://www.analoglovers.com/page34.html
(new) http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue35/classical_music.htm

Teresa's Classical Music for Everyone ...
http://www.analoglovers.com/page20.html
(new) http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue35/classical_music.htm

Don

I read the two links.  All I can say is that the entries are much too light for my tastes and her overall views do not reveal a person who loves classical music.  For example, she puts down any music that is not immediately enjoyable.

Norbeone


Don

Quote from: Norbeone on January 27, 2008, 12:47:39 PM
And not one Bach recommendation.    :o

If I remember right, no baroque at all.  I suppose it could be an okay list for those who much prefer light music, bu it's alien to me.

Fëanor

Quote from: Don on January 27, 2008, 12:15:13 PM
I read the two links.  All I can say is that the entries are much too light for my tastes and her overall views do not reveal a person who loves classical music.  For example, she puts down any music that is not immediately enjoyable.

I think that's the crux of the matter:  although she enjoys certain individual pieces, she really doesn't like classical music in general.

Lethevich

What a batshit insane list :) I don't understand why people make these lists, this one in particular is very strange. Loads of second rate music at the expense of entire genres - niche to the point of not being useful. It is a list of what the person behind AnalogLovers.com likes rather than a useful introduction to a general listener. I actually shudder that someone may see this list as the product of a balanced mind, and also ignore everything other than orchestral music (not that their choices in the orchestral arena made much sense either - WTF is going on with the RVW choices?).
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Gurn Blanston

2 questions:

1 - What the hell is Power Orchestra Classical  ???
2 - How can she say that these "extend(s) the boundries of what is possible in the classical form" when few if any of them are IN Classical Form?   ::)

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Fëanor

#7
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 06:02:13 PM
What a batshit insane list :) I don't understand why people make these lists, this one in particular is very strange. Loads of second rate music at the expense of entire genres - niche to the point of not being useful. It is a list of what the person behind AnalogLovers.com likes rather than a useful introduction to a general listener. I actually shudder that someone may see this list as the product of a balanced mind, and also ignore everything other than orchestral music (not that their choices in the orchestral arena made much sense either - WTF is going on with the RVW choices?).

Hehehe  ;D  Well, I think it's clear the Teresa doesn't like classical music.  She has stated explicitly (at these links and elsewhere) that she can't relate to anything before Beethoven and doesn't understand why anyone would listen to chamber music.

As to why people publish lists, I guess they just like to share their opinions.  For our part we are at liberty to ignore them or use them to the extent we want.  My list, (see my signature), was compiled to aid my own personal investigation of classical music and it has been helpful in that objective.

Harry

Well what can I say, I read with astonishment the Teresa story of how to map out your classical route.
She has a strange way of thinking and compiling lists.

ChamberNut

I was only looking for 2 works to see if they were on the list.  If they were on the list, I immediately closed the link.

Gershwin - Cuban Overture :P

Ravel - Bolero. :P


In addition, Beethoven's 5th Symphony wasn't even on the list.  :o

Morigan

What the **** is this ***** talking about!?

QuoteIt's not me but the press that proclaimed Amadeus Wolfgang Mozart as the greatest composer of all time, it's me that disagrees with this lofty status given to Mozart.

It is indeed "absolute music" that turns people off of Classical Music (myself included). [...]  I really hope that new convert who has just discovered the wonderfully exciting "Night on Bald Mountain" NEVER leads to a love affair with the Schubert string quintet!  Not too much more dry or boring as Schubert chamber music, except for maybe Brahms chamber music.

Oh yes, the great distinction between POWER ORCHESTRAL MUSIC and the bland "absolute music"...

Fëanor

Quote from: ChamberNut on January 28, 2008, 04:14:24 AM
...
In addition, Beethoven's 5th Symphony wasn't even on the list.  :o

That's amazing -- even in context.

Lethevich

I have since realised a use for the list, although not for beginners. An experienced listener who has a perverse interest in Romantic/tonal orchestral suites and poems will no doubt find much to investigate :) Perhaps the list should be renamed...
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Morigan

QuoteMany listeners think all Classical Music is like what they heard in the movie "Amadeus"  Nothing could be further from the truth.  In reality Classical music can be more thrilling, more exciting and with as much rhythmic drive as any other type of music.  At least 90% of the best Classic orchestral music is totally unknown to most music lovers, thus the reason for this much needed list.

The biggest problem with these series is they were rather weak in the bass depriving Power orchestral music of much of it's impact and excitement.   Deep and powerful low frequency energy is very important to the maximum enjoyment Power orchestral music.

>:( This is ridiculous! Moreover, I've always thought the movie Amadeus was a great display of Mozart's most powerful music...

andy

While I think this list is worthless to those who love music, it's not without merit. For instance, I could see my girlfriend, or anyone else who likes music but wants something catchy and appealing, liking a lot of the pieces on her list. In fact, I'd say that someone listening to these works is more likely to be turned on to classical music than someone who's start is with Mozart's 41 symphony or Beethoven's 5th piano concerto, even though they are "better" works than 99% of this list.

Hey, it could be a good way to get more people interested in classical... you gotta start somewhere.

andy

I just read this on the second link:

Quote
What if Mussorgsky was considered the greatest classical composer rather than Mozart? What if instead every music listener's first introduction to classical music was "Night on Bald Mountain"? I believe the number of listeners liking classical music would easily increase 10 fold!

I don't think it would increase by that much, but I definitely think classical would find more listeners if people thought of classical as like "Night on Bald Mountain" and not Bach or Mozart. The attitude towards classical would be so different. Honestly, Bach's music is boring to someone who's grown up listening to rock and pop music... but heart-on-your-sleeve/action-packed tone poems aren't boring one bit.

(poco) Sforzando

"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Don

Quote from: andy on January 28, 2008, 06:32:03 PM
Honestly, Bach's music is boring to someone who's grown up listening to rock and pop music... but heart-on-your-sleeve/action-packed tone poems aren't boring one bit.

Not sure about that.  I grew up on rock music and never found Bach boring; Mozart was a different story.

Ephemerid

From the site:
QuoteFor listeners new to Classical Music or afraid of Classic Music, if you love the music of Star Wars, Indiana Jones and other sci-fi and adventure films you should love the music from this list.
CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE  :'( 

"Power music"??   ??? (I'm surprised not to see Orff's Carmina Burana on this list-- not that its not a good piece, but you know its such a common cliche...)

And:
QuoteIt is indeed "absolute music" that turns people off of Classical Music (myself included).
What planet is she from?  My first real exposure to classical music was Beethoven's 6th symphony, but the old cassette I had when I was a kid had no liner notes or anything.  I fell in love with it.  And then I discovered Bach and from then on I was deeply in love with classical music.  There are a few exceptions, but generally speaking, I don't think about extramusical things listening to music (I love Scheherezade, but I couldn't tell you the name of any of the four movements-- I could care less). 

David Byrne in True Stories: "Do you like music?  Oh, I know-- everybody says they do..."

Fëanor

Quote from: andy on January 28, 2008, 06:21:04 PM
While I think this list is worthless to those who love music, it's not without merit. For instance, I could see my girlfriend, or anyone else who likes music but wants something catchy and appealing, liking a lot of the pieces on her list. In fact, I'd say that someone listening to these works is more likely to be turned on to classical music than someone who's start is with Mozart's 41 symphony or Beethoven's 5th piano concerto, even though they are "better" works than 99% of this list.

Hey, it could be a good way to get more people interested in classical... you gotta start somewhere.

Yes, I agree there is something to be said for Teresa's choices as enticement for new listeners.  It would have be OK of she had left it at that, but no ...  For those of us who long ago transcended Disney Fantasia music, her disparagement of so much great music and composers is both offensive and ridiculous.