Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

Started by karlhenning, April 25, 2007, 12:02:09 PM

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Lethevich

Quote from: D Minor on May 01, 2007, 12:24:34 PM
Prices @ AMAZON MARKETPLACE (USA):

Barshai = $55
Jansons = $51
Kondrashin = $79
Haitink (2006) = $49.99

What the hell? Didn't the Barshai use to be half that price? :-\

I guess if I'm going to throw in a whine post, I may as well do something constructive too: the Barshai is easy to overlook because of its (evidently no longer) very low price, but it has excellent sonics and the interpretation has plenty of grit/pathos/aggression (insert more generic "Shostakovichy" words here) as well, making it less boring than the "middle ground" nature of the interpretations may suggest.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

Quote from: D Minor on May 01, 2007, 12:24:34 PM
Prices @ AMAZON MARKETPLACE (USA):

Barshai = $55
Jansons = $51
Kondrashin = $79
Haitink (2006) = $49.99



Price @ amazon.com (USA):  $111.49
Price @ AMAZON MARKETPLACE (USA): from $68.43 (new)
Price @ arkivmusic.com:  $59.49 (current sale price)

Michel

Haitink came through the post today, so on it goes.....

karlhenning

Start with the Eighth or the Thirteenth!

Steve

Quote from: Michel on May 03, 2007, 01:33:28 AM
One thing is for sure, Kondrashin's Mahler 1 IS the best! And thats that!

Any performance where the conductor walks off and then dies as a result must be a must purchase!

We'll see about that. Until then Jansons is my top choice.

George

Quote from: Steve on May 03, 2007, 10:32:43 AM
We'll see about that. Until then Jansons is my top choice.

I'm betting that Haitink doesn't replace Jansons for you, Steve.  :-\

Danny

Quote from: karlhenning on May 03, 2007, 10:22:01 AM
Start with the Eighth or the Thirteenth!

I just love the Tenth.  But, then again, I love that symphony period. 

The Sixth is indeed a delight, and am finally happy to have heard it! :)

Steve

Quote from: George on May 03, 2007, 11:12:11 AM
I'm betting that Haitink doesn't replace Jansons for you, Steve.  :-\

Well I haven't ordered the Haitink, yet. I will probably hold off until I've had a chance to sample a friends' copy. I'm most excited about the Kondrashin, actually.

BachQ

Quote from: Lethe on May 03, 2007, 05:01:55 AM
What the hell? Didn't the Barshai use to be half that price? :-\

I guess if I'm going to throw in a whine post, I may as well do something constructive too: the Barshai is easy to overlook because of its (evidently no longer) very low price, but it has excellent sonics and the interpretation has plenty of grit/pathos/aggression (insert more generic "Shostakovichy" words here) as well, making it less boring than the "middle ground" nature of the interpretations may suggest.

The Barshai set is a no-brainer (even with this elevated pricing): Russian conductor + excellent orchestra + modern sonics!

BachQ

But a Russian conductor + Russian orchestra + modern sound is also a winning formula.

BachQ

Quote from: karlhenning on May 03, 2007, 09:16:47 AM


Price @ amazon.com (USA):  $111.49
Price @ AMAZON MARKETPLACE (USA): from $68.43 (new)
Price @ arkivmusic.com:  $59.49 (current sale price)

That's a good sale price, Karl.  Very tempting, frankly.

Michel

Why is everyone talking about the great sonics of Barshai? I am a little way into my comparisons and the intial findings suggest the opposite. They are very unbalanced, with a lot of shrill, little or no midrange, with a booming, ineffective and crass bass. Haitink, on the other hand, is a sonic masterpiece. The lusch sonority of the Concertgebouw is glorious. And lets be honest, I would not describe the Kondrashin sonics as bad, or substantially worse than Barshai for the latter to gain a point.

Anyway, I just couldn't help saying this but I must abstain until I have further organised my thoughts.

BachQ

Quote from: Michel on May 03, 2007, 02:23:21 PM
Why is everyone talking about the great sonics of Barshai? I am a little way into my comparisons and the intial findings suggest the opposite. They are very unbalanced, with a lot of shrill, little or no midrange, with a booming, ineffective and crass bass. Haitink, on the other hand, is a sonic masterpiece. The lusch sonority of the Concertgebouw is glorious. And lets be honest, I would not describe the Kondrashin sonics as bad, or substantially worse than Barshai for the latter to gain a point.

This is agonizing. 

Steve

Quote from: Michel on May 03, 2007, 02:23:21 PM
Why is everyone talking about the great sonics of Barshai? I am a little way into my comparisons and the intial findings suggest the opposite. They are very unbalanced, with a lot of shrill, little or no midrange, with a booming, ineffective and crass bass. Haitink, on the other hand, is a sonic masterpiece. The lusch sonority of the Concertgebouw is glorious. And lets be honest, I would not describe the Kondrashin sonics as bad, or substantially worse than Barshai for the latter to gain a point.

Anyway, I just couldn't help saying this but I must abstain until I have further organised my thoughts.

I was not 'thrilled'' with the sonics either, but the playing is just terrific. There simply seems to be just the right amount of energy interjected into each of the movements, without compromising the mood of the work. Barshai knows these works. While the sound my not be as good, as say the Jansons, the performance is consistentantly an easy rec for me.

BachQ

#174
Quote from: Steve on May 03, 2007, 02:57:45 PM
I was not 'thrilled'' with the sonics either, but the playing is just terrific. There simply seems to be just the right amount of energy interjected into each of the movements, without compromising the mood of the work. Barshai knows these works. While the sound my not be as good, as say the Jansons, the performance is consistentantly an easy rec for me.

Sonics is not rocket science, folks . . . . . . . Grrrrrr



Says David Hurwitz: "The bottom line is that [Maxim Shostakovich] doesn't put a foot wrong anywhere. There's nothing controversial here, no extremes of fast or slow, no exaggerating the dark and miserable--but there's also no underplaying of the music's intensity. Shostakovich catches the flow of each piece, finding a balanced and unusually rich range of expression on both the happy and sad sides of the emotional ledger.  *** The live sonics are very faithful to the sound of the orchestra, and the audience, while present, is invariably well-behaved. I think it's important that Maxim Shostakovich's views on this music have been preserved at last, and if the result hasn't the technical perfection of the best of the competition, it has such honesty and genuine excitement that it really doesn't matter. This is a cycle to live with--a true reference for anyone wanting a baseline view of how each work ought to go, and what it expresses."

sonic1

I have never heard anyone really MESS UP Shostakovich symphonies, but please, don't prove me wrong. Let me stay ignorant if anyone has really screwed them up.

BorisG

Jansons may be the best bargain at $31 plus at Amazon Marketplace. The upside, this set has very good sound with a variety of orchestras turning in good to very good performances. The downside, few if any of the readings can vie for number one status.

I think Haitink at $15 to $20 more? is overall the best value. Some performances can vie for number one, and the sound is often of demonstration quality.

The less available Rozhdestvensky, and newly remastered Melodiya Kondrashin, are THE two Russian contenders. Some performances vie for number one. Sound is good on Rozhdestvensky, and acceptable to good on Kondrashin. Both are overpriced.

As is Barshai. $50 for Barshai is too high. If it was $30, then I could suggest someone get it for some Russian flavor.

BachQ

Quote from: BorisG on May 03, 2007, 04:39:18 PM
Jansons may be the best bargain at $31 plus at Amazon Marketplace.


Damn . . . . . . . that's a good price . . . . . .

BachQ

Interesting exchange between Donwyn and M Forever:

Quote from: donwyn on November 03, 2006, 01:26:51 AM

With Mravinsky/Kondrashin I'm often disturbed by that "grab 'em by the throat" approach they both favor. I'd be happy if they decided to "linger" once in a while over the music, giving some space to the music to let it...sing. Yes, sing.

Quote from: M Forever

*** I thought about what I could say to make these recordings more appealing to you, but I couldn't really come up with anything that might help you. I don't find them lyrically wanting at all, it is just a different sort of lyricism from expansive, drawn out, speeled out lyricism. I find these performances by Kondrashin and Mravinsky very expressive, in a more stern, terse way, and they both emphasize the classicist aspect of Shostakovich' music. It is not really classicist in the sense of looking back in nostalgia, but in the concentration of form and expression which holds even the longest and most epic pieces together on the inside. Remember Mravinsky was intensely involved in the premieres of several of these pieces, not just because he happened to be there, but because he was Shostakovich' preferred conductor and one of his most ardent champions for many years. Later, the friendship went sour, but that is a different story. In any case, I don't find either Kondrashin or, and especially, Mravinsky far from being underexposed when it comes to the lyrical, expressive sides of Shostakovich' music. Both seem to me to be "spot on" when it comes to transporting a certain "tone" in the music that I find very apt and which sounds to me very "idiomatic".

Steve

Quote from: BorisG on May 03, 2007, 04:39:18 PM
Jansons may be the best bargain at $31 plus at Amazon Marketplace. The upside, this set has very good sound with a variety of orchestras turning in good to very good performances. The downside, few if any of the readings can vie for number one status.

I think Haitink at $15 to $20 more? is overall the best value. Some performances can vie for number one, and the sound is often of demonstration quality.

The less available Rozhdestvensky, and newly remastered Melodiya Kondrashin, are THE two Russian contenders. Some performances vie for number one. Sound is good on Rozhdestvensky, and acceptable to good on Kondrashin. Both are overpriced.


As is Barshai. $50 for Barshai is too high. If it was $30, then I could suggest someone get it for some Russian flavor.




As for the Jansons, many of his recordings can vie for elite status. Take for example the 2nd or the 15th- I have connected more with these symphonies than nearly anything in the Shostakovich repotoire thanks to Mariss Jansons. He suceeds on an entirely emotional level, bringing an intimate connection to works that have long struggled to appreciate.

As for the Barshai, I do feel that 50 dollars is a reasonabe rate. I own that set for the superior performances, excellent sound, and good tempi make this really a wonderful comapnion to the Jansons. I would reccomend it, even at 50 dollars.