Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[BorisG]

As for the Jansons, many of his recordings can vie for elite status. Take for example the 2nd or the 15th- I have connected more with these symphonies than nearly anything in the Shostakovich repotoire thanks to Mariss Jansons. He suceeds on an entirely emotional level, bringing an intimate connection to works that have long struggled to appreciate.

As for the Barshai, I do feel that 50 dollars is a reasonabe rate. I own that set for the superior performances, excellent sound, and good tempi make this really a wonderful comapnion to the Jansons. I would reccomend it, even at 50 dollars.

Well, we must completely disagree.

Jansons has more things to say, as is clearly expressed in his recent Concertgebouw Shostakovich 7 recording. A considerable improvement over his earlier Leningrad. I am most optimistic for his and Concertgebouw's Shostakovich future.

I feel Barshai is a hack compared to Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky. If one is hankering for Russian, that $50 would be better spent toward Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky. Spend some more and get the real thing, which a true Russian lover would probably end up with anyway.

[Steve]

Well, we must completely disagree.

Jansons has more things to say, as is clearly expressed in his recent Concertgebouw Shostakovich 7 recording. A considerable improvement over his earlier Leningrad. I am most optimistic for his and Concertgebouw's Shostakovich future.

I feel Barshai is a hack compared to Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky. If one is hankering for Russian, that $50 would be better spent toward Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky. Spend some more and get the real thing, which a true Russian lover would probably end up with anyway.

Yes, we will have to disagree. While I haven't heard the Kondrashin yet, I find that there is more to Barshai then a Russian touch on these symphonies. The orchestration is fantastic, there is abundant flavor and enthusiasm pulsating through the entire set. Barshai knew how to lead Shostakovich. 

[BorisG]

Yes, we will have to disagree. While I haven't heard the Kondrashin yet, I find that there is more to Barshai then a Russian touch on these symphonies. The orchestration is fantastic, there is abundant flavor and enthusiasm pulsating through the entire set. Barshai knew how to lead Shostakovich. 

Also, you could compare Barshai and Bychkov WDR recordings.

[Steve]

Also, you could compare Barshai and Bychkov WDR recordings.

I'm not familiar with those. Are you implying that they are similar recordings?

[BorisG]

I'm not familiar with those. Are you implying that they are similar recordings?

No, no Hattogate.

[Steve]

Well, I really should look into those, then. At the moment, I'm thrilled to find out if the Kondrashin really lives up to expectations. It was ordered with expedited delivery a couple of days ago, and so I expect it shortly. I would gladly engage in a discussion on how it fairs against the Barshai. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

This is agonizing. 

It's also not true.

Barshai's set has been consistently hailed as a sonic success.

I have it and can attest to that.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I feel Barshai is a hack compared to Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky. .

Oh?

As Barshai premiered the 14th symphony, played viola in both the Beethoven and Borodin Quartets, founded the Moscow Chamber Orchestra (and even transcribed some of the quartets for chamber orchestra)...

...not to mention worked closely with Shostakovich, and, well...IS RUSSIAN...

Just how is he a hack?

Please, please enlighten us...

[Steve]

Oh?

As Barshai premiered the 14th symphony, played viola in both the Beethoven and Borodin Quartets, transcribed some of the quartets for chamber orchestra, founded the Moscow Chamber Orchestra...

...not to mention worked closely with Shostakovich, and, well...IS RUSSIAN...

Just how is he a hack?

Please, please enlighten us...

I'm more eager to understand how a single Russian interpreter of these works is sufficient. I've sampled the Kondrashin, and find them to be radically different interpretations. There is not simply a single Russian touch
to these works.

As for the sonics, I found the sound to be impeccable.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

There is not simply a single Russian touch
to these works.

Yes, judging by the recorded evidence, there is no single 'correct' Russian approach to these works.

There's Kondrashin who sounds nothing like Roszdestvensky who sounds nothing like Mravinsky who sounds nothing like Barshai (haven't heard Maxim ).

Which leaves the door wide open for all kinds of approaches.

[Michel]

I am going to have to interject here again because, Donwyn, despite the fact that Barshai is Russian, he doesn't sound typically Russian, not like Kondrashin, Rozhdestvensky or Mravinsky. I take your point about there not being "one" Russian sound, but if a listener is after the stereotypical one, Barshai certainly is not it.

And anyone who thinks the sonics are impeccable, I seriously urge you to hear the 8th adagio of Haitink, then put on Barshai - you will suddenly see what I am saying.

[AnthonyAthletic]

Michel, did you get your Barshai from Britannia, if so does their set come in jewel cases or paper sleeves?  I have the old jewel edition and am looking to save space 

I recently bought his Shostakovich Chamber Symphonies, superb workings of 5 of his quartets, now for orchestra....even if Shosty didn't like what Barshai did with them (his own orchestrations), they are very grand stuff...lovely double flip slimline packaging too.

[Harry]

Why is everyone talking about the great sonics of Barshai? I am a little way into my comparisons and the intial findings suggest the opposite. They are very unbalanced, with a lot of shrill, little or no midrange, with a booming, ineffective and crass bass. Haitink, on the other hand, is a sonic masterpiece. The lusch sonority of the Concertgebouw is glorious. And lets be honest, I would not describe the Kondrashin sonics as bad, or substantially worse than Barshai for the latter to gain a point.

Anyway, I just couldn't help saying this but I must abstain until I have further organised my thoughts.

Michel, I am a bit wondering about your equipment!
I am sorry to say to you that the notion that the Barshai sound is not that good as Haitink, is simply not true.
I have both sets, true they have a totally different sound picture, and a different acoustic, but both are very good.
If you have shrillness, and little mid-range and a booming bass, than first look at your listening room, and if that is oke, change your gear.
Because neither of the things you say is true in the general sense. The recording from Barshai is very good.
Haitink is lush yes, Barshai is lucid and tight, different acoustics.

[Harry]

Yes, we will have to disagree. While I haven't heard the Kondrashin yet, I find that there is more to Barshai then a Russian touch on these symphonies. The orchestration is fantastic, there is abundant flavor and enthusiasm pulsating through the entire set. Barshai knew how to lead Shostakovich. 

Totally agreed upon!

[Harry]

I am going to have to interject here again because, Donwyn, despite the fact that Barshai is Russian, he doesn't sound typically Russian, not like Kondrashin, Rozhdestvensky or Mravinsky. I take your point about there not being "one" Russian sound, but if a listener is after the stereotypical one, Barshai certainly is not it.

And anyone who thinks the sonics are impeccable, I seriously urge you to hear the 8th adagio of Haitink, then put on Barshai - you will suddenly see what I am saying.

Well lets say, alot of people think that the Barshai is oke, and you think not.
But please define if you will, what in your opinion a Russian flavour is and what not!
I did listen Michel, and both sound top-notch.

[Michel]

Michel, did you get your Barshai from Britannia, if so does their set come in jewel cases or paper sleeves?  I have the old jewel edition and am looking to save space 

I recently bought his Shostakovich Chamber Symphonies, superb workings of 5 of his quartets, now for orchestra....even if Shosty didn't like what Barshai did with them (his own orchestrations), they are very grand stuff...lovely double flip slimline packaging too.

Yeah, it is the box with card sleeves - much better than that bulky lot!!

And its only 13 quid isnt it?

[Drasko]

I was not 'thrilled'' with the sonics either, but the playing is just terrific. There simply seems to be just the right amount of energy interjected into each of the movements, without compromising the mood of the work. Barshai knows these works.

As for the sonics, I found the sound to be impeccable.

So, which is it?

[Michel]

So, which is it?

Well spotted Drasko!

[karlhenning]

That's a good sale price, Karl.  Very tempting, frankly.

Well, and with $2.95 shipping, a temptation which I did not see fit to resist, mon vieux 

[karlhenning]

Why is everyone talking about the great sonics of Barshai? I am a little way into my comparisons and the intial findings suggest the opposite. They are very unbalanced, with a lot of shrill, little or no midrange, with a booming, ineffective and crass bass. Haitink, on the other hand, is a sonic masterpiece. The lusch sonority of the Concertgebouw is glorious. And lets be honest, I would not describe the Kondrashin sonics as bad, or substantially worse than Barshai for the latter to gain a point.

Anyway, I just couldn't help saying this but I must abstain until I have further organised my thoughts.

That all sounds pretty much to the point, by me.  It is, for instance, a large part of Barshai's account of the Seventh not striking me as any gain upon the Haitink (terrific sound overall whether the orchestra is the Concertgebouw, or [as is the case with the Leningrad] the London Phil).