Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[karlhenning]

Karl, I like the Maxim Shosty set, but unless you've heard the Kondrashin, you really can't comment on it.

That is true, save only two minor qualifications.

I have heard a recording of his Fourteenth (a cassette I used to have in the 80s), yet it does not loom as great in sonic memory as some of the print I have read suggests it ought.

And other recordings I have heard more recently (not of Shostakovich) conducted by Kondrashin strike me more as ragged than as exciting.

Those points aside, I am certainly interested in hearing more of the Kondrashin cycle, especially now that the sound has been cleaned up.  But you will agree, I think, that on the basis of my own listening experience, I cannot be expected to think the Kondrashin a sound investment (no pun intended) at this price.

[George]

Karl, I like the Maxim Shosty set, but unless you've heard the Kondrashin, you really can't comment on it.  It's not sexed up hype, it's just that Kondrashin is the most exciting and vibrant Shostakovich I've heard -- and I prefer it despite it's awful sound quality.

Just curious: do you have the early Melodiya issue, the Aulos one, or the most recent Melodiya issue with the red eyeglasses on the cover?

[BachQ]

I feel Barshai is a hack compared to Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky.

That statement is not supported by the evidence . . . . . .

[BachQ]

Barshai's set has been consistently hailed as a sonic success.

I have it and can attest to that.

Bless you! 

[karlhenning]

Music is discovery, mon vieux!   0:)

[BachQ]

There's Kondrashin who sounds nothing like Roszdestvensky who sounds nothing like Mravinsky who sounds nothing like Barshai (haven't heard Maxim ).

Which leaves the door wide open for all kinds of approaches.

I think that's really the bottom line . . . . . . .

[Steve]

Bless you! 

The Barshai was actually my first complete cycle of the Shostakovich Symphonies. To this day, I have never had any qualms with the sonics.

[BachQ]

Well, and with $2.95 shipping, [the Maxim Shosty set represents] a temptation which I did not see fit to resist, mon vieux 

I agree . . . . . . . irresistible . . . . . . .

[Steve]

I agree . . . . . . . irresistible . . . . . . .

You're familiar with that set, D Minor? What do you think of it?

[BachQ]

An idea:

Perhaps we could start with #1 and listen to the recordings we have in our collection. Then report back with our findings and discuss.

Once we've done that, we could move on to #2 and continue in this fashion until we reach #15.

That way, we could take a closer look at these works and evaluate how many of them are done well by each of the conductors who offer them as sets and then pick a set to buy based on this information. Or, perhaps conclude that buying separate performances is the way to go?

What do folks think about this?

Too sensible an idea, George . . . . . . . This is GMG, afterall . . . . . . where systematic, rational approaches simply do not fly! . . . . . . .  

[BachQ]

You're familiar with that set, D Minor? What do you think of it?

No, I don't have it . . . . . my point is that I agree that it's a tempting purchase (based on numerous factors). . . . . .

[BachQ]

I will try to participate in this, however most of my CDs and LPs are terribly unorganized because I just moved to a new place. So I am not sure how completest I can be. I will try.

jared

We're here for you, Jared . . . . . .

[BachQ]

I am certainly interested in hearing more of the Kondrashin cycle, especially now that the sound has been cleaned up. 

Well, based on that Amazon review (cited earlier), the sonics have been measurably improved . . . . . . So, if for no other reason, the newest remastered Kondrashin cycle should be purchased as a reference set . . . . . . . (in addition to at least a half-dozen other sets  ) . . . . . . .

[Steve]

No, I don't have it . . . . . my point is that I agree that it's a tempting purchase (based on numerous factors). . . . . .

Ahh, noted. 

[karlhenning]

Here is a review posted at amazon by an esteemed friend no longer with us:

I am actually more than mildly surprised to see this boxed set of the Shostakovich symphonies, performed by Rudolf Barshai and the Southwest Radio Orchestra (Germany) available here at Amazon.com. Brilliant Classics is not a label that gets wide distribution in the U.S. (although one can find releases on this label if one knows where to look).

Any - perhaps every - collector of the Shostakovich symphonies can put together a listing of his or her favorite performances, work-by-work, without once referring to this Barshai boxed set. I know that I can, and that such a listing for me would include performances by Bernstein (the 5th), Gergiev (the 7th) Haitink (several, but most especially the 8th and the 15th), both Janssons and Karajan (the 10th), Ormandy (the 4th), Rostropovich (the 11th, in his new LSO Live recording), Stokowski (the 1st and the 11th) and Zander (the 5th). All of these (and more) are already in my library, and I wouldn't want to be without any of them.

But all of this is beside the point. In virtually every way (including performance and sonics), these Barshai recordings are highly competitive, and, as an integral complete set, are topped only by the Haitink set (at considerably higher cost). Barshai, for many years, was a close associate of Shostakovich (and the arranger of, among other pieces, Shostakovich's remarkable 8th Quartet for chamber orchestra as his "Chamber Symphony"), and he has this music in his blood. This long personal association means that Barshai understands not only what we have come to call "authentic performance practice," but all of the myriad "hidden meanings" to be found in this most autobiographical of composers.

Overall, the weaknesses are very few. The packaging is Spartan, and the documentation even less than that. If I continue to prefer Haitink for the 8th and 15th Symphonies, it is by the smallest of margins. Ditto for Gergiev in the 7th Symphony. Everywhere else, Barshai elicits performances that are truly "top drawer," with recorded sound to match. And how often will one go out of one's way to obtain recordings of Shostakovich's 2nd and 3rd Symphonies on a full-price label? Not often at all, meaning that most people miss these two works entirely. Not that they are Shostakovich at his best (particularly with their "agitprop" finales), but I must confess that there are some pleasant surprises in the early movements of the Shostakovich 2nd Symphony, written during his most "experimental" phase and sounding quite like Charles Ives in places: "Gorky Park in the Dark" might be a clever way of putting matters.

Those already having good collections of the symphonies are probably already aware of this bargain box, and will get it (or have already gotten it) just for its comprehensiveness and uniformity of interpretation and quality. Those just starting out to discover Shostakovich and his symphonies could hardly do better than acquire this bargain box: For about what one would normally pay for just three or four of the symphonies on full-price labels, you can have the full set of works by Barshai, and begin your journey comfortable with the fact that these are authoritative performances by an acknowledged Shostakovich master. [ posted June 30, 2003 ]

[George]

Yes, judging by the recorded evidence, there is no single 'correct' Russian approach to these works.

I agree. In the end, we really only have our opinions, right? If we stick to saying what we like or what don't like, we absolutely can't be wrong. If I say I love Kondrashin's work in Shostakovich, no one can tell me that I don't like it. This statement is an opinion, but it is also a fact. Its only when people make that jump from I love Kondrashin's DSCH to "Kondrashin's DSCH is how it should be done" or "anyone other than Kondrashinin DSCH is a knucklehead" that we run into problems. Sure, it can be argued that that these are also opinions, but it isn't also fact. To me that the difference. As you say, there is no one "correct" way to approach these works. 

In a similar way, I find it very strange when someone tells me that they don't like pizza or ice cream, but that certainly doesn't make that person wrong.     

[BachQ]

Here is a review posted at amazon by an esteemed friend no longer with us:

In virtually every way (including performance and sonics), these Barshai recordings are highly competitive, and, as an integral complete set, are topped only by the Haitink set (at considerably higher cost).

One problem with a symphony-by-symphony approach is that you miss the full, cumulative effect of the entire cycle, in all of its grandeur (or all of its morass) . . . . . .

[BachQ]

Its only when people make that jump from I love Kondrashin's DSCH to "Kondrashin's DSCH is how it should be done" or "anyone other than Kondrashinin DSCH is a knucklehead" that we run into problems.

Or when someone presents opinion as fact  . . . . . .

[Bunny]

Just curious: do you have the early Melodiya issue, the Aulos one, or the most recent Melodiya issue with the red eyeglasses on the cover?

The Aulos set. It looks like this:

[karlhenning]

Interesting that Bob Z preferred the Haitink Eighth to Barshai, I thought!  (No, I haven't heard Barshai in the Eighth.)

And I admit I am tickled that his favorites in the Tenth are both Jansons and von Karajan, where of these two, I find it very easy to Choose One™