Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[Danny]

Call me crazy, but I feel that the Yablonsky version on Naxos of the Leningrad is better than the Haitinik version with the LSO.  Yablonsky gives an interpretation that strikes me as being more Russian, and, as a result, more chaotic and fiery in areas (the percussion in the first movement comes to mind).

[Don]

Call me crazy, but I feel that the Yablonsky version on Naxos of the Leningrad is better than the Haitinik version with the LSO.  Yablonsky gives an interpretation that strikes me as being more Russian, and, as a result, more chaotic and fiery in areas (the percussion in the first movement comes to mind).

DANNY IS CRAZY

[BachQ]

Call me crazy, but I feel that the Yablonsky version on Naxos of the Leningrad is better than the Haitinik version with the LSO.  Yablonsky gives an interpretation that strikes me as being more Russian, and, as a result, more chaotic and fiery in areas (the percussion in the first movement comes to mind).

You're crazy .........

[Michel]

You may say he is crazy but lots of others go about saying interpretations are better if they sound "Russian", as though that is an objective yardstick, which it is not. So although his specific reference is a peculiar one, the logic behind it is ubiquitous across this board.

In other news, I got Virgin to send out another Kondrashin box set and this, like the last, is bent and in places torn because it is so flimsy... So I am just going to copy it now and send it back...I give up!

[karlhenning]

I think the cries of "Danny's off his chump!" might just have been good-natured compliance with his opening clause . . . .

I should revisit the Haitink recording of the Leningrad . . . haven't listened to it in a while, and the versions I have been listening to lately are the Bernstein/CSO and Maksim Dmitriyevich.

[karlhenning]

In other news, I got Virgin to send out another Kondrashin box set and this, like the last, is bent and in places torn because it is so flimsy... So I am just going to copy it now and send it back...I give up!

Argh.

Somebody ought to be able to figure out how to pack these things for travel . . . .

[karlhenning]

It's not a cycle, and so is technically off-topic . . . but the Temirkanov/St Petersburg Phil account of the Fifth and Sixth is excellent!

[Danny]

It's good to be crazy! 

Seriously, I could lie and say otherwise because the consensus is against me, but why do that?  However, this in no way goes against the cycle (which I love).  Personally, I think Haitinik gives a magnificent rendering of the Fifth, Eighth and Tenth symphonies. So in the Seventh I might find a lesser known name to be better because it has less of the polish and gloss to it, but that's just an IMHO.

[George]

Argh.

Somebody ought to be able to figure out how to pack these things for travel . . . .

Russian DVD did, mine arrived intact. 

[George]

It's good to be crazy! 

Seriously, I could lie and say otherwise because the consensus is against me, but why do that?  However, this in no way goes against the cycle (which I love).  Personally, I think Haitinik gives a magnificent rendering of the Fifth, Eighth and Tenth symphonies. So in the Seventh I might find a lesser known name to be better because it has less of the polish and gloss to it, but that's just an IMHO.

I agree. Polish and gloss is not what I look for in my Shostakovich. 

[karlhenning]

Okay, the Respectful Opposition will chime in :-)

If by "polish" we mean, that the events as notated in the score are synchronized in performance in a way which faithfully reflects the score, I think that polish can only be a good thing, it is not anything to which any musical objection could be made.

But maybe something else is meant by "polish"?  The fact is, it is not clear to me what is meant by polish . . . so I really cannot say whether I agree or not.

[from the new world]

i] Somebody [/i] ought to be able to figure out how to pack these things for travel . . . .

Talking of packaging issues, I have just received the Kitaenko Shostakovich cycle from Germany, and it came wrapped in a plastic bag by the Deutsche Post after the cardboard box was damaged. The good news is that the SACD hybrids seem perfectly fine, and the 14th is playing fine (the first to be played).

There doesn't seem to have been much discussion about this cycle, and I was wondering if anyone has heard these performances. Still, at under £30 for 12 hybrids with great sound, there are definately a bargain.

[Danny]

Okay, the Respectful Opposition will chime in :-)

If by "polish" we mean, that the events as notated in the score are synchronized in performance in a way which faithfully reflects the score, I think that polish can only be a good thing, it is not anything to which any musical objection could be made.

But maybe something else is meant by "polish"?  The fact is, it is not clear to me what is meant by polish . . . so I really cannot say whether I agree or not.

Always a gentelman, Dr. Karl!

Now, I thought it made sense when first writing it, but now...........................

Ok, my thoughts were that by using the word "polish" I meant that the interpretation had an overly refined or controlled quality.  It seems that, in parts, the music didn't erupt like it should have (especially in the culmination to the long march in the first movement). I wasn't impressed by the percussion, and the timpani just wasn't loud enough for my taste.  This isn't to say that I don't like the version by Haitinik (which I do), I just thought that after listening to his version a few times that I still prefered the Yablonsky one.

[Michel]

Argh.

Somebody ought to be able to figure out how to pack these things for travel . . . .

Its not that, its the box set, its crap. Bloody Russians.

[karlhenning]

Interesting, Danny, and thank you for your clarification!

I need to revisit the Haitink (and, I don't know the Yablonsky).

[Danny]

Interesting, Danny, and thank you for your clarification!

I need to revisit the Haitink (and, I don't know the Yablonsky).

If you want it, I could burn you a copy and send it you.

Just let me know.

[BachQ]

Talking of packaging issues, I have just received the Kitaenko Shostakovich cycle from Germany, and it came wrapped in a plastic bag by the Deutsche Post after the cardboard box was damaged. The good news is that the SACD hybrids seem perfectly fine, and the 14th is playing fine (the first to be played).

There doesn't seem to have been much discussion about this cycle, and I was wondering if anyone has heard these performances. Still, at under £30 for 12 hybrids with great sound, there are definately a bargain.

I want that set .......... want it bad .......... want it soon .........

[George]

Ok, my thoughts were that by using the word "polish" I meant that the interpretation had an overly refined or controlled quality.  It seems that, in parts, the music didn't erupt like it should have (especially in the culmination to the long march in the first movement). I wasn't impressed by the percussion, and the timpani just wasn't loud enough for my taste.  This isn't to say that I don't like the version by Haitinik (which I do), I just thought that after listening to his version a few times that I still prefered the Yablonsky one.

I thought that's what you were getting at. I agree that Haitink falls into this category, as does Abbado. These days, since I don't like their style, I avoid these conductors.

[karlhenning]

I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but there is a kind of cool stasis to the wind chorale in the third movement Adagio of the Leningrad in the Haitink/London Phil recording, which I find exquisitely well advised (a stunning echo of, say, the chorales in Stravinsky's L'histoire du soldat).  It is one of many accomplishments in this recording, which drive my high regard for it.  Nor is it to say that the third movement has to be done that way in order for me to approve of a performance (the Bernstein/CSO is notably different in that passage, for instance).

Anyway, lads, this is just an example of why I find it of greater interest, more musically useful, what you will, to compare specific features, rather than to use a general term like "polished" as denoting inferiority.  (And BTW, I have no quarrel with the percussion here, either;  naturally, YMMV.)

[George]

Anyway, lads, this is just an example of why I find it of greater interest, more musically useful, what you will, to compare specific features, rather than to use a general term like "polished" as denoting inferiority.  (And BTW, I have no quarrel with the percussion here, either;  naturally, YMMV.)

Yes, but Karl, even specific features do not point to inferiority, they just point to what you (or I) like or do not like. I don't recall stating (or Danny stating) that polished meant inferior. If I implied such a thing, I apologize. I merely meant to say that polished and Shostakovich don't go well for me. I would certainly not be so bold as to assume that my negative impressions meant that something was inferior in general, just inferior to me, for me. As Harry reminds us all (daily) it's all subjective. To think that my subjective experience translated into an objective fact (such as something being inferior) would be naive indeed.