Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

Started by karlhenning, April 25, 2007, 12:02:09 PM

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Karl Henning

Sorry, I see scads of opinion, but little information. The existence of a Wigglesworth recording, yes, that is information. Buried in there.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Parsifal

Quote from: karlhenning on October 11, 2013, 05:22:47 AM
Sorry, I see scads of opinion, but little information. The existence of a Wigglesworth recording, yes, that is information. Buried in there.

Yes, there is a lot of disparaging language in that review.  What I get from that is he listened to Petrenko's other recordings and he thinks they stink.  But the phrases Brian singled out strike me as quite clear in their meaning.  I have no dog in this fight (I find myself with no curiosity whatsoever about Petrenko's Shostakovich recordings) but the review strikes me as typical, perhaps a bit better than average with regards to "information" conveyed.  But "above average classical recording review" is a very, very low standard, sort of like an above average story in the National Enquirer.


Karl Henning

Right, I think we are all agreed: reviews whose informational content boils down to I don't like this one, listen, here are these others I like better; sorry I cannot be bothered to give you musical reasons why are the journalistic equivalent of fruitflies.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Not sure I listened before to the Kondrashin/Dresden account of the Op.43 . . . anyone else feel that he rushes the second movement? (Moderato, con moto)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

amw

Quote from: Beale on July 19, 2012, 04:58:10 AM
Ok, a question about the fifth symphony to stay on topic.

Reading the Classicstoday.com reviews, it appears there are two ways for a conductor to approach the finale. Victor Carr Jr wrote this about Lorin Maazel and the Cleveland Orchestra: "Maazel's finale builds to an excitingly affirmative conclusion–the kind prevalent before the revisionist "ironic" ending popularized by Rostropovich".

Now compare David Hurwitz on Yakov Kreizberg and Russian National Orchestra: "Kreizberg, like Sanderling, is absolutely convinced that the finale does not represent a "happy" ending."

So what do you prefer?

Replying to a 2 year old post!

I found a couple of approaches I like—the really slow endings can have a sort of apocalyptic gravitas or a sort of parodic excess, depending on (oddly enough) how those repeated As in the violins are articulated. This is the Ashkenazy, Rostropovich, Sanderling kind of thing. They do tend to play the Allegro non troppo a bit faster, which makes it sort of exciting (esp Sanderling), whereas Ashkenazy errs more on the "apocalyptic" side of things.

On the other hand there is Wigglesworth who takes the last movement quite slowly (esp at first)—which actually is supported by Shostakovich's metronome marks, which are not that fast (starting at quarter = 88, I think... don't have a score to hand... accelerating to quarter = 120 as the main theme progresses, a bit further to something like quarter = 144 at one point, but then all the note values get halved so it's effectively even slower than the beginning...)—making it almost disappear in the middle. He maintains the slow tempo when the theme comes back and starts building up (I think this is counter to Mitya's metronome marks actually)... does the required allargando into the coda... then just goes back to the original tempo and plays the coda in strict metronomic time without even the slightest rit. at the end. The overall effect is quite mechanistic, somewhat reminiscent of the "invasion" theme in the 7th.

The only others I've heard are Stokowski and Bernstein which I didn't like as much. In general I find I don't care so much whether the coda is taken fast or slow, as whether the tempo is broadened for the last two bars or not (i.e. the timpani/bass drum solo). If it is, I seem to find the performance less satisfying.

Karl Henning

So long as it is done convincingly, I can take that coda either slow or fast.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

jlaurson

#906
It's time to put together a list of complete DSCH Symphony cycles...

and any help and input to complete the list (not all at once; I've only jotted down the obvious ones so far... without dates and such) here would be much appreciated.

Shostakovich Cycles


R.Barshai / WDR SO
Brilliant

B.Haitink / RCO & LPO
(London Phil.  1-4, 7, 9, 10 and 15
Concertgebous 5,6,8 ,11-14)
Decca

M.Shostakovich / Prague SO

M.Rostropovich /

Y.Mravinsky / Leningrad PO
(incomplete)

K.Kondrashin / Moscow PO
Melodiya et al.

V.Petrenko / R.Liverpool PO

M.Jansons / Various
EMI
(BRSO, BPh, LPO, Oslo Phil, Pittsburgh SO,

M.Wigglesworth / Netherlands RPO, BBC NO Wales
BIS

V.Ashekenazy / Royal Phil., St.Petersburg PO, NHK SO
Decca

Various Conductors / RNO
Pentatone
(Vladimir Jurowski 1, 6 | P.Berglund 8 | M.Pletnev 11, 15 | Y.Kreizberg 5, 9... has that been all, to-date? 5 releases, 7 symphonies? Huh, seemed like there was more already)


V.Gergiev / Mariinsky O.
Mariinsky Live

D.Kitayenko / Gürzenich O.
Capriccio

DG Mixed Cycle
(Bernstein, Chung, Järvi, Karajan, Previn, Rostropovich)

L.Slovak / Yablonski
Czech RSO

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: jlaurson on May 01, 2014, 09:44:17 AM
M.Wigglesworth / Netherlands RPO
BIS

Actually there's a bit of a split with this cycle. Five of the symphonies (the first to be recorded, IIRC) were recorded with the BBC National Orchestra of Wales. I have nos. 5, 6, & 10 with this orchestra and love them.


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

kishnevi

Has Gergiev actually recorded all the symphonies (including his earlier takes with Philips/Decca)?  I do not remember seeing 12 and 13 from him.

Haitink also divvied up his cycle between two orchestras.
London Phil.  1-4, 7, 9, 10 and 15
Concertgebous 5,6,8 ,11-14

aukhawk

Caetani

and there was the old Melodiya mixed cycle - Svetlanov, Rozhdestvensky‎, Kondrashin, plus the 15th under Maxim Shostakovich, I don't know if that's available as a cycle now

londonrich


jlaurson

Quote from: londonrich on May 02, 2014, 03:45:24 AM
There's also the Rozhdestvensky Melodiya cycle, which looks like it's OOP now
http://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich-Symphonies-Nos-1-15-Dmitry/dp/B00004TCPW

And, if you're including incompletes, the Sanderling's a good one:
http://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-10-15-D-Shostakovich/dp/B000025R32/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1399031186&sr=1-2&keywords=sanderling+shostakovich
Maybe too incomplete?

Quote from: aukhawk on May 02, 2014, 03:27:46 AM
Caetani
and there was the old Melodiya mixed cycle - Svetlanov, Rozhdestvensky‎, Kondrashin, plus the 15th under Maxim Shostakovich, I don't know if that's available as a cycle now

Caetani, of course! I also overlooked Kofman and Inbal.

Never seen the mixed Melodiya cycle... interesting, especially with that semi mythic Maxim 15th.

And yes, Rozhdestvensky‎ was outside my perimeter, too... now that there's more action from Melodiya, re-issue-wise, we might hope to see that re-issued.

If I include the Pentatone, which is slimmer than I thought (but might well be continued), I would *have* to include Sanderling. Incomplete though it is, I think extremely highly of it... and since it's not like with Beethoven Sonata Cycles, where there are more than you could shake a stick at, it strikes me as prudent to make liberal exceptions.

Quote from: jlaurson on May 01, 2014, 09:44:17 AM
It's time to put together a list of complete DSCH Symphony cycles...

and any help and input to complete the list (not all at once; I've only jotted down the obvious ones so far... without dates and such) here would be much appreciated.

Shostakovich Cycles

R.Barshai / WDR SO
Brilliant, 11 CDs

B.Haitink / RCO, LPO
Decca, 11 CDs   

M.Shostakovich / Prague SO
Supraphon 10 CDs

M.Rostropovich / NSO, LSO, Academic SO Moscow
Warner, 12 CDs

Y.Mravinsky / Leningrad PO
(incomplete)

K.Kondrashin / Moscow PO
Melodiya, 11 CDs , Aulos 10 CDs.

V.Petrenko / R.Liverpool PO

M.Jansons / Various
EMI - Warner
(BRSO, BPh, LPO, Oslo PO, Pittsburgh SO, WPh, Philadelphia, St.Peterburg PO.)

M.Wigglesworth / Netherlands RPO, BBS NO Wales
BIS

V.Ashekenazy / Royal Phil., St.Petersburg PO, NHK SO
Decca, 12 CDs

Various Conductors / Vladimir Jurowski 1, 6 | P.Berglund 8 | M.Pletnev 11, 15 | Y.Kreizberg 5, 9.
Pentatone, SACD

V.Gergiev / Mariinsky O.
Mariinsky Live

D.Kitayenko / Gürzenich O.
Capriccio, 12 SACDs

DG Mixed Cycle Collector's Edition
(Bernstein, Chung, Järvi, Karajan, Previn, Rostropovich)

L.Slovak / Czech RSO
Naxos

O. Caetani /  Giuseppe Verdi SO Milan
Arts, 10 SACDs

R.Kofman / Beethoven Orchester Bonn
M|DG 11 SACDs

G.Rozhdestvensky / Leningrad PO, Moscow PO, USSR Ministry of Culture SO
Melodiya, 14 CDs

E.Inbal / WSO
Denon, 11 CDs


snyprrr

Thread Virgin

I have come around to looking into (1)4,(13)14, and 15. Only those three (five). I know! :laugh: It's the Shosty Thread, after all!! ;) :P


So, I was doing some research. No.1? Karl? Anyone? Am I reeeally interested in this? I had Jarvi/Chandos at one time (with my fav 6), but,... is... No.1 swept away by

No.4

I had this with Jarvi/Chandos, but I wasn't ready for the music. I wanted more of the 5th- melodic blah blah. Now I just want a SuperSymphony- kitchen sink (also thinking of Schnittke 1)- and I HEEEAR that No.4 is the way to go. Looking, we find- surprisesurprise Chung!!(DG)- I mean, who wouldn't be forgiven for a double-take on that one? What say?

Then, Jansons seems to get all-around high marks, though sometimes people are fighting over him and Rattle (both EMI).

Some even liked Rostropovitch(Teldec). I WOULD need confirmation on this one, hrrr,hmm. ::) Surely the Teldec sound is a winner?

I can't remember if I saw a Salonen (DG?)... anyhow, apparently there's a gaggle of modern 4ths- though- some say Jarvi still reigns supreme...

WAIT! Is there a Slatkin?

And, wasn't there...


Nos.13-14

Anyone have that Virgin 14th?

I used to have Haitink in both, thought they were fine at the time (I think I still have 13 in a closet somewhere...)... 13 I'm clueless about... 14 I just want the BEST SINGING- none of the bass singers' samples have turned my bowels to water yet.

There's a 14 where the conductor directs to play with no vibrato? Still, the singing here- I want MORE!

I want to hear dirt and gravel married with perfection and easy for singer-haters to love.


15

This one's the one I'm really curious about. Again, had Haitink back in the day- fine as I recall- I want it all here. I hear Great things about Jansons here- though Sanderling/Berlin gets the EAPoe award with Sanderling/Erato not far behind. Then, some still prefer,... wait?... is Ormandy a 15 or a 4??

This Petrenko guy- wazzup? Some say he's got quite a way with certain pieces. But, I'm looking for that EMI, Virgin, Philips, (sometimes) Erato, Teldec sound- you know you know- and I just know that the Naxos sound, though fine, doesn't normally give that Thing- y'know?

I'm totally forgetting a lot of interesting one-offs I saw last night. I was really surprised at the state of the Shostakovitch Symphony Discography. Chung, especially, was a surprise, and Slatkin (though, I'd seen and dismissed a lot of these during my 'Dismiss DSCH' Phase).

So, can ya help a bruutha out with (1) 4 (13) 14 & 15?


Oh- forgot Jarvi (DG) has a 2CD 13-15. Expensive though...


Oh- and Jansons for 2 & 12?

vandermolen

Previn is also vg in No. 4 (EMI) and 8 (EMI).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

NJ Joe

"Music can inspire love, religious ecstasy, cathartic release, social bonding, and a glimpse of another dimension. A sense that there is another time, another space and another, better universe."
-David Byrne

snyprrr

Just read through WHOLE THREAD!! >:DNOT VERY HELPFUL!! >:D

1) Karl's been good

2) Sarge, you want Jarvi in the 6th. Just do it...

3) gaaah- so much blather

Not one mention of Ashkenazy No.5. No mention of this, that, or the other thing. COME ON guys!! It seems only Karl took his role seriously. Ugh, so much wanking going on in here you need a mop!! :P

Already my Post is buried. ugh :(

vandermolen

Just bought the Janson's box dirt cheap (£14) and will report back.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

snyprrr

#917
Symphony No.13




Kondrashin MPO (various;1963?)"girl hiding face"cover?
Ormandy (-)
Muti (Memories;1970)





Rozhdesventsky (various;1985)'speaking'
                                                                                                                                                                                        Kamu (Chandos;1987)

                                                                                                   Previn (EMI-AAD;1980)
Haitink (Decca;1984)             

                                                                                                                                                                                     Rostropovitch (Teldec;1989)   
                                                                                                                                                                                   Masur (Teldec;1994) Lieferkus
                                                                                                                                                                                       Solti (Decca) Aleksashkin
Inbal (Denon)                                                                      M.Shostakovitch (Supraphon;1995)
                                                                                                                                                                                       Jarvi (DG;1996) Lieferkus
                                                                                                                                                                                       Polyansky (Chandos;1999)

                                                                                                                                                                                       Shallon (Koch;1994)               
                                                                                                 Slovak (Naxos;1994)
                                                                                              Sondeckis (SONY;1996)


Sinaisky (BBCProms-'live';2000) Lieferkus

Jansons (EMI;2006) Aleksashkin
Temirkanov (RCA;2007) Aleksashkin
Barshai (Brilliant;2008) Aleksashkin
Fedosseyev (Relief-'live';2006) Aleksashkin 'live'

                                                                                           Caetani (Arts;2007)SACD
                                                                                           Kofman (MDG;2005)SACD

                                                                                                                                                                               Schwarz (Avie;2003)
                                                                                              Wigglesworth (BIS;2006)
                                                                                                                                                                         Ashkenazy (Decca;2007)






snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 09:00:51 AM
Thread Virgin

I have come around to looking into (1)4,(13)14, and 15. Only those three (five). I know! :laugh: It's the Shosty Thread, after all!! ;) :P


So, I was doing some research. No.1? Karl? Anyone? Am I reeeally interested in this? I had Jarvi/Chandos at one time (with my fav 6), but,... is... No.1 swept away by

No.4

I had this with Jarvi/Chandos, but I wasn't ready for the music. I wanted more of the 5th- melodic blah blah. Now I just want a SuperSymphony- kitchen sink (also thinking of Schnittke 1)- and I HEEEAR that No.4 is the way to go. Looking, we find- surprisesurprise Chung!!(DG)- I mean, who wouldn't be forgiven for a double-take on that one? What say?

Then, Jansons seems to get all-around high marks, though sometimes people are fighting over him and Rattle (both EMI).

Some even liked Rostropovitch(Teldec). I WOULD need confirmation on this one, hrrr,hmm. ::) Surely the Teldec sound is a winner?

I can't remember if I saw a Salonen (DG?)... anyhow, apparently there's a gaggle of modern 4ths- though- some say Jarvi still reigns supreme...

WAIT! Is there a Slatkin?

And, wasn't there...


Nos.13-14

Anyone have that Virgin 14th?

I used to have Haitink in both, thought they were fine at the time (I think I still have 13 in a closet somewhere...)... 13 I'm clueless about... 14 I just want the BEST SINGING- none of the bass singers' samples have turned my bowels to water yet.

There's a 14 where the conductor directs to play with no vibrato? Still, the singing here- I want MORE!

I want to hear dirt and gravel married with perfection and easy for singer-haters to love.


15

This one's the one I'm really curious about. Again, had Haitink back in the day- fine as I recall- I want it all here. I hear Great things about Jansons here- though Sanderling/Berlin gets the EAPoe award with Sanderling/Erato not far behind. Then, some still prefer,... wait?... is Ormandy a 15 or a 4??

This Petrenko guy- wazzup? Some say he's got quite a way with certain pieces. But, I'm looking for that EMI, Virgin, Philips, (sometimes) Erato, Teldec sound- you know you know- and I just know that the Naxos sound, though fine, doesn't normally give that Thing- y'know?

I'm totally forgetting a lot of interesting one-offs I saw last night. I was really surprised at the state of the Shostakovitch Symphony Discography. Chung, especially, was a surprise, and Slatkin (though, I'd seen and dismissed a lot of these during my 'Dismiss DSCH' Phase).

So, can ya help a bruutha out with (1) 4 (13) 14 & 15?


Oh- forgot Jarvi (DG) has a 2CD 13-15. Expensive though...


Oh- and Jansons for 2 & 12?

tap tap tap

Brahmsian

Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 11:23:13 AM
tap tap tap

For the 4th, I like Petrenko/Royal Liverpool an Ormandy/Philadephia.