Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

Started by karlhenning, April 25, 2007, 12:02:09 PM

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Sergeant Rock

Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 11:23:13 AM
tap tap tap



4 - ROZHDESTVENSKY/USSR MofC SO

4 - RATTLE/CBSO

14 - ROSTROPOVICH/ACADEMIC SO MOSCOW with VISHNEVSKAYA/RESHETIN

14 - CURRENTZIS/MUSIC AETERNA with KORPACHEVA/MIGUNOV

15 -  KONDRASHIN/MOSCOW PHIL

15 - SANDERLING/CLEVELAND

15 - ROZHDESTVENSKY/USSR MofC SO

From the Gramophone's Shosty 15th death match (their four picks: Haitink, M.Shostakovich, Lopez-Cobos, Rozh):

THE RUSSIAN MASTER
USSR Ministry of Culture SO / Gennadi Rozhdestvensky Melodiya
This is the most satisfying and characterful of the first-generation Russian performances. A demented first movement and chilling second movement are the highlights of a thoughtful performance that's well aware of its own eccentricities.


And Karl might agree with this (he's the only one I know who owns Maxim's cycle):

THE FIRST CHOICE
Prague Symphony Orchestra / Maxim Shostakovich Supraphon
After 35 years of trying, Shostakovich Jr finally gets it spectacularly right. Cogent but not obvious tempi allow his father's material to speak eloquently, while Shostakovich coaxes a sensitive and charismatic response from the Prague SO.



Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 26, 2014, 12:00:54 PM
And Karl might agree with this (he's the only one I know who owns Maxim's cycle):

THE FIRST CHOICE
Prague Symphony Orchestra / Maxim Shostakovich Supraphon
After 35 years of trying, Shostakovich Jr finally gets it spectacularly right. Cogent but not obvious tempi allow his father's material to speak eloquently, while Shostakovich coaxes a sensitive and charismatic response from the Prague SO.



Sarge

Hm, the Fifteenth, right?  Pretty much agree, sure do like Maksim Dmitriyevich there.  The very best?  Maybe.  The Sanderling/Cleveland and López-Cobos/Cinci are excellent, too.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: karlhenning on May 26, 2014, 12:21:25 PM
Hm, the Fifteenth, right?  Pretty much agree, sure do like Maksim Dmitriyevich there.  The very best?  Maybe.  The Sanderling/Cleveland and López-Cobos/Cinci are excellent, too.

You should definitely check out Kondrashin/Dresden, Karl. This is one of the most blistering performances I've heard of the 15th.

snyprrr

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 26, 2014, 12:00:54 PM


4 - ROZHDESTVENSKY/USSR MofC SO

4 - RATTLE/CBSO

14 - ROSTROPOVICH/ACADEMIC SO MOSCOW with VISHNEVSKAYA/RESHETIN

14 - CURRENTZIS/MUSIC AETERNA with KORPACHEVA/MIGUNOV

15 -  KONDRASHIN/MOSCOW PHIL

15 - SANDERLING/CLEVELAND

15 - ROZHDESTVENSKY/USSR MofC SO

From the Gramophone's Shosty 15th death match (their four picks: Haitink, M.Shostakovich, Lopez-Cobos, Rozh):

THE RUSSIAN MASTER
USSR Ministry of Culture SO / Gennadi Rozhdestvensky Melodiya
This is the most satisfying and characterful of the first-generation Russian performances. A demented first movement and chilling second movement are the highlights of a thoughtful performance that's well aware of its own eccentricities.


And Karl might agree with this (he's the only one I know who owns Maxim's cycle):

THE FIRST CHOICE
Prague Symphony Orchestra / Maxim Shostakovich Supraphon
After 35 years of trying, Shostakovich Jr finally gets it spectacularly right. Cogent but not obvious tempi allow his father's material to speak eloquently, while Shostakovich coaxes a sensitive and charismatic response from the Prague SO.



Sarge

hey thanks!

So, they like Rattle over Jansons in 4? Interesting

Sanderling/Cleveland seems to be the Grail

Am I really to trust those singers in 14? I get scurred easily here...


Quote from: ChamberNut on May 26, 2014, 11:46:42 AM
For the 4th, I like Petrenko/Royal Liverpool an Ormandy/Philadephia.

First vote for Petrenko 4th


Quote from: karlhenning on May 26, 2014, 12:21:25 PM
Hm, the Fifteenth, right?  Pretty much agree, sure do like Maksim Dmitriyevich there.  The very best?  Maybe.  The Sanderling/Cleveland and López-Cobos/Cinci are excellent, too.

I'm getting ferverish. :PDoes my tongue look green to you?

I read the whole Thread today, and I've looked over the Discographies of 4,13,14,15 (1,9)- that I'm just overloaded with choices and confused. You mean MaXim/Supraphon when you say Maksim?- here we must speak the language of the CD cover/Amazon profile if we are to be clear- there's too many Maxkhims to keep them straight.

So,  I'm really wanting to hear about the ones no one's talking about. Chung, for instance... I'm like a junkie right now and I need some GOOD STUFF- what's that DSCH site where they review every disc quickly?

There are literally NO REVIEWS for a lot of these records- or really lame one-liners- -- we can all HEAR the MUSIC later- what we need NOW is deep comparative analysis!! I USED to be the kind of person who would take it upon myself to BuyItNow! all of these and do the work- I just caaan't :'(. But when I see one-off conductors record some odd/cool DSCH, I pee my pants. :-[ I neeeed to know, but can't count on it.

Why can't one of you catch this bug I've got and go out and Manchurian this one for me? :laugh:

I'll just be back later with timings for all issues involved- in a flow chart so we can all see plainly what the deal is. ::)

snyprrr

Quote from: jlaurson on May 01, 2014, 09:44:17 AM
It's time to put together a list of complete DSCH Symphony cycles...

and any help and input to complete the list (not all at once; I've only jotted down the obvious ones so far... without dates and such) here would be much appreciated.

Shostakovich Cycles


R.Barshai / WDR SO
Brilliant

B.Haitink / RCO & LPO
(London Phil.  1-4, 7, 9, 10 and 15
Concertgebous 5,6,8 ,11-14)
Decca

M.Shostakovich / Prague SO

M.Rostropovich /

Y.Mravinsky / Leningrad PO
(incomplete)

K.Kondrashin / Moscow PO
Melodiya et al.

V.Petrenko / R.Liverpool PO

M.Jansons / Various
EMI
(BRSO, BPh, LPO, Oslo Phil, Pittsburgh SO,

M.Wigglesworth / Netherlands RPO, BBC NO Wales
BIS

V.Ashekenazy / Royal Phil., St.Petersburg PO, NHK SO
Decca

Various Conductors / RNO
Pentatone
(Vladimir Jurowski 1, 6 | P.Berglund 8 | M.Pletnev 11, 15 | Y.Kreizberg 5, 9... has that been all, to-date? 5 releases, 7 symphonies? Huh, seemed like there was more already)


V.Gergiev / Mariinsky O.
Mariinsky Live

D.Kitayenko / Gürzenich O.
Capriccio

DG Mixed Cycle
(Bernstein, Chung, Järvi, Karajan, Previn, Rostropovich)

L.Slovak / Yablonski
Czech RSO

I'd love to hear your thoughts on 13 14 15 and maybe 4

I must say, after reading the Whole Thread, it doesn't seem like many GMGrs have very many oddball choices. Everyone has Barshai or Jansons... one of the oldies ,Rohdz-Mrav-Kondr... maybe a Naxos...

but, people seem content once their tastes have been slaked. Am I wrong? I'd looove to just splurge on 30 used CDs just to settle the dust in my attic- I mean,... am I having a relapse??? :o ??? :o

Have anything to say about Chung... or Salonen... or Slatkin... or any other oddball?

Ken B

Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 04:44:22 PM
I'd love to hear your thoughts on 13 14 15 and maybe 4

I must say, after reading the Whole Thread, it doesn't seem like many GMGrs have very many oddball choices. Everyone has Barshai or Jansons... one of the oldies ,Rohdz-Mrav-Kondr... maybe a Naxos...

but, people seem content once their tastes have been slaked. Am I wrong? I'd looove to just splurge on 30 used CDs just to settle the dust in my attic- I mean,... am I having a relapse??? :o ??? :o

Have anything to say about Chung... or Salonen... or Slatkin... or any other oddball?

You should wander over to the Haydn symphony comparison thread ...
>:D

snyprrr

#926
Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 11:22:35 AM
Symphony No.13



Kondrashin MPO (various;1963?)
Ormandy (-)
Muti (Memories;1970)


Rozhdesventsky (various;1985)
Kamu (Chandos;1987)

Previn (EMI-AAD;1980)
Haitink (Decca;1984)

Rostropovitch (Teldec;1989)   
Masur (Teldec;1994)
Solti (Decca)
Inbal (Denon)                          M.Shostakovitch (Supraphon;1995)
Jarvi (DG;1996)
Polyansky (Chandos;1999)

Shallon (Koch;1994)                Slovak (Naxos;1994)
Sondeckis (SONY;1996)


Sinaisky (BBCProms-'live';2000)


Jansons (EMI;2006)
Kofman (MDG;2006)
Temirkanov (RCA;2007)

Barshai (Brilliant;2008)
Fedosseyev (Relief-'live';2006)
Caetani (Arts;2007)
Schwarz (Avie;2003)
Wigglesworth (BIS;2006)
Ashkenazy (Decca;2007)

snyprrr

#927
Symphony 14



Kondrashin
Ormandy
Barshai****
Britten (1973)
Rostropovitch (Melodiya/Teldec Box?;1973)
Bernstein (SONY;1976)***

Kegel (Weitblick)

Rozhdestvensky (Melodiya;1984)


Haitink (Decca)****
Inbal (Denon)**

Lazarev (Virgin;1991)
Turovsky (Chandos;1992)***
Jarvi (DG;1993)
Chung (Koch-Schwann;1994)

Liberman (Utrecht Conservatory;1994)
Slovak (Naxos;1994)
Hayrabedian (Opus111;1996)
Swensen (Ondine;1996)
Wigglesworth (BIS;2001)**
Kremer (ECM;2004/7)


Jansons (EMI;2006)***
Rattle (EMI-'live';2006)
Kofman (MDG;2008)
Caetani (Arts;2006)**
Ashkenazy (Decca;2007)

Barshai (Brilliant;200*)
Currentzis (Alpha;2010)*****
Petrenko (Naxos;2014)****

snyprrr

#928
Symphony No.15



M.Shostakovitch
Mravinsky
Ormandy
Kondrashin (1974)

Rozhdestvensky (Melodiya;1983)
Haitink (Decca;1979)****

Jarvi (DG;1989)
Ashkenazy (Decca;1992)
M.Shostakovitch (Collins;1993)
Sanderling (Erato;1993)*****
Sanderling (Berlin;1995)*****
Rostropovitch (Teldec;1992)
Solti (Decca)
Dutoit (Decca)!
Jansons (EMI;1998)****

Slovak (Naxos;1994)
Polyansky (Chandos;1997)
Rostropovitch (Alliance'live'?;1998)         M.Shostakovitch (Supraphon;1995)*****
Fedosseyev (Canton;1997)
Barshai (Brilliant;1998)
Weigle (ArsMusici;1999)

Lopez-Cobos (Telarc;2001)****

Sanderling (Avex;2004)
Sinaisky (BBCLive;2006)
Jordania (Angelok;2005)

Caetani (Arts;2006)
Kofman (MDG;2008)
Pletnev (Pentatone;2009)
Gergiev (Mariinsky;2009)
Boryeko (Hanssler;2012)
Haitink (RCOLive;2012)
Petrenko (Naxos;2012)
Wigglesworth (BIS;2014)
Darlington (Acousense-'live'?;2012)


Sergeant Rock

#930
Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 04:35:59 PM
hey thanks!

So, they like Rattle over Jansons in 4? Interesting

Sanderling/Cleveland seems to be the Grail

Am I really to trust those singers in 14? I get scurred easily here...

The list I posted included my personal choices for 4, 14 and 15, but yes, Gramophone picked Rattle along with Barshai, Rozhdestvensky and the first Kondrashin for the Fourth.

Sanderling/Cleveland the Grail? It is for me. In fact I bought a second copy just to have a backup. But there are other Fifthteens I like too: Kondrashin (the anti-Sanderling), Haitink, Rozhdestvensky. But realize Sanderling has detractors, too, those who dislike his slow tempos. He's six or seven minutes slower than Rozh, Kond/Moscow and Barshai in the final movement:


Sanderling/Cleveland                 8:43  16:20  5:07  20:21
Sanderling/Berlin                      8:29  15:21  5:06  19:41
Caetani/SinfMilano                    8:28  14:28  4:15  19:04 18:11
Jansons/LPO                            8:20  17:08  3:59  16:40
Barshai/WDR SO                      8:19  11:43  3:53  13:58
Rostropovich/LSO                    8:13  16:17  5:40  15:56
Haitink/Concertgebouw             8:05  16:25  4:12  16:57
Kitajenko/Gürzenich                 7:58  16:01  4:34  16:59
Rozhdestvensky/USSR MOC      7:46  16:23  4:33  14:20
Kondrashin/Moscow                  7:02  13:43  4:25  15:06
Kondrashin/Dresden                 7:00  13:56  4:20  17:10


There's no way I can know if the singers in the Rostropovich and Currentzis 14th will scare you away. Both basses sound fine to me. You can't get more authentic than Vishnevskaya but Korpacheva has the more pleasing voice, if smaller.


Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

amw

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 27, 2014, 03:38:27 AM
Sanderling/Cleveland                 [...] 20:21
Listening to this out of curiosity. I like how the basses in the passacaglia theme are clearly audible. Hearing the symphony live with Alexander Lazarev & the NZSO a few days ago they were quite difficult to hear, which threw me off a little. ("Why are we just listening to some timpani and viola wobbles?")

Sergeant Rock

#933
Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 04:44:22 PM
I must say, after reading the Whole Thread, it doesn't seem like many GMGrs have very many oddball choices. Everyone has Barshai or Jansons... one of the oldies ,Rohdz-Mrav-Kondr...

There's a reason for that. A Shosty symphony collection must include at least one of the "Soviet" cycles (by Soviet I mean any conductor who was trained in Russia during the Cold War). So yes, most here have sprung for Kondrashin (if they have the means) or Barshai (the choice for those on a budget) or Jansons (the new kid on the block and a solid cycle, with superior sonics relative to Kond and Rozh). I have Barshai, Rozh, Jansons, Rostropovich, Kitajenko, Sanderling (his partial cycle) and parts of Caetani (son of Markevitch and student of Kondrashin). Kondrashin is the least appealing to me: too manic, in general, with the poorest sound, so I don't have his complete cycle..but I do like his Dresden 4 and Moscow 15. I have nothing of Maxim's Supraphon set but I keep dreaming about it.

I don't know why you are so fixated on the "oddball" choices before you've thoroughly explored the Soviets. I guess you're just being snyprrr  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 27, 2014, 04:17:57 AM
. . . I have nothing of Maxim's Supraphon set but I keep dreaming about it.

The day will come! 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

londonrich

I like the Kitajenko 15th - although I may be in a minority of one for that, as I don't see it often touted. The Rozhdestvensky is very good too, although if we're talking about the 80s Melodiya cycle, the sound quality is somewhat eccentric. To my ears, it sounds like Melodiya put one microphone in the room next door, while a sound engineer ran around the orchestra with the other microphone, sticking it under the nose of any performer he thought was going to do something interesting.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: karlhenning on May 27, 2014, 04:21:19 AM
The day will come! 8)

There's a used set at Amazon DE with an asking price of €50...hmmmm....

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: londonrich on May 27, 2014, 04:24:36 AM
I like the Kitajenko 15th - although I may be in a minority of one for that, as I don't see it often touted. The Rozhdestvensky is very good too, although if we're talking about the 80s Melodiya cycle, the sound quality is somewhat eccentric. To my ears, it sounds like Melodiya put one microphone in the room next door, while a sound engineer ran around the orchestra with the other microphone, sticking it under the nose of any performer he thought was going to do something interesting.

Kitajenko's cycle has superb sound. I put that on just to wallow in the sonic waves  8)  You're right about the bizzare sound his engineers gave Rozh but it's never gotten in the way of my appreciation for his interpertations.

Sarge 
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 04:44:22 PM
Have anything to say about Chung... or Salonen... or Slatkin... or any other oddball?

From the Gramophone's Fourth death match:

Myung-Whun Chung. His brisk opening allegro is hardly 'poco moderato', and balance often goes badly awry. Conversely, the third theme is too measured, momentum tailing off as the development approaches.The second movement is better integrated, but the pulse is too rapid for its harmonic astringency fully to register. The Finale builds to a powerful initial climax, but the divertissement has too little wit. The peroration is recklessly garbled, while the coda has little latent catastrophe. The sound is opulent, but the score's dynamic extremes are not held in sharp enough focus. Fans of the Phildelphia Orchestra should certainly opt for the more characterful Ormandy.


Leonard Slatkin launches the first movement with crisp precision. As with Previn, the voltage remains low, despite an agile dash to the development's apex. The reprise is limp to the point of torpor, with little ominous import, while the second movement is too casual for its anxiety to hit home. The finale opens in strangely songful intimacy and proceeds through an effortful allegro, then a divertissement which recalls the Warner Brothers' cartoon composer Carl Stalling. The peroration leaves a forceful impression that the phlegmatic close dissipates. The Saint Louis Symphony's attentive playing and the detailed if soft-focus sound fail to rescue Slatkin's interpretation.



I don't own those two so I can't confirm or deny that critic's opinion.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Quote from: snyprrr on May 26, 2014, 09:00:51 AM
So, I was doing some research. No.1? Karl? Anyone? Am I reeeally interested in this?

Well, it deserves its place in the rep (i.e., he wrote it when yet a student, but it is not a "student work").

The López-Cobos/Cinci disc may be the thing (or one thing);  very good accounts of both the Fifteenth and First.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot