Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[snyprrr]

I was in fact going to guess Rodzinsky because he was
almost all in green,  and a suitable Dark Horse.  Kondrashin was all green but not a dark horse....and not cheap IIRC.

Everyone on this forum is mad for Perfection- of course we all think alike on certain wavelengths! And even when Perfections Clash, boom!, even stranger things happen!

I would love to hear that Rozh 7:40min. salad chopper! vs. Kondrashin 5:35!!!! hahaha- there's the whole world in a nutshell for ya! People are people

Once you get past the "it has to be a russian" prejudice Previn is the name on the list, russians included, most likely to give a great performance of that piece; it is right in his wheelhouse.  I have not heard any on the list but Barshai, btw.

Oh? You've heard the Barshai Classics-for-Pleasure? Do tell! I certainly couldn't find any samples- and I suppose he could go either way (but I'm a sucker for rare EMI and such). what's the skinny?




DSCH is a Composer where Timings DO tell SOME of the tale, so, yes, it was certainly worthwhile for me to put things plainly on one page- everyone's an expert when they can just look at it for themselves and see- oh- ok- there it is! poof! done! I thank Our Lord Jesus Christ

[snyprrr]

Is it Maxim who is 26:34 in the 1st mvmt. of the 5th? (LSO)? I mean,... reeealy does stuff like that actually work?? No, maxim is ONLY 19:19

[Ken B]

Everyone on this forum is mad for Perfection- of course we all think alike on certain wavelengths! And even when Perfections Clash, boom!, even stranger things happen!

I would love to hear that Rozh 7:40min. salad chopper! vs. Kondrashin 5:35!!!! hahaha- there's the whole world in a nutshell for ya! People are people

Oh? You've heard the Barshai Classics-for-Pleasure? Do tell! I certainly couldn't find any samples- and I suppose he could go either way (but I'm a sucker for rare EMI and such). what's the skinny?




DSCH is a Composer where Timings DO tell SOME of the tale, so, yes, it was certainly worthwhile for me to put things plainly on one page- everyone's an expert when they can just look at it for themselves and see- oh- ok- there it is! poof! done! I thank Our Lord Jesus Christ

Cfp? Then no, I have the Barshai Brilliant. So I have heard none of your candidates, yet honed in your choice. Cool huh?

[snyprrr]

Cfp? Then no, I have the Barshai Brilliant. So I have heard none of your candidates, yet honed in your choice. Cool huh?

As a consolation prize-

What do you think is the secret of the 1st mvmt of the 5th? I think it's when the piano comes in with that 'walking' figure, real sinister. In my head i hear it played correctly at two tempi, one on the faster side of the node, one on the slower side. If all samples simply played this part we'd know a good portion of how the mvmt is going, eh? I haven't heard an 'off' one yet (only Haitink, Bernstein later, Ashkenazy*) but the mvmt goes from 14:18 (Ancerl) to 19:19 (M.DSCH). I don't even want to know what a bad performance could possibly sound like,... all draggy,... but maybe it works? I don't know... it's late and the caffe's wearing offfffzzzzzzZZZzzz... zzZZzzz... uh...ZZZzzz.. zzz..

[Karl Henning]

Is it Maxim who is 26:34 in the 1st mvmt. of the 5th? (LSO)? I mean,... reeealy does stuff like that actually work?? No, maxim is ONLY 19:19

Also, mustn't go simply by timing with his last movements in the Supraphon box, as there is post-symphony applause.

[Sergeant Rock]

I think the Wigglesworth sample failed on the salad chopper. BUT WHAT OF ROZH'S OVER 7 MINUTE??? Do you have that? I figured out that if you DO play this part slow enough to a point, every single note takes on the exact same weight so that it could sound like a demonic marchine death. Maybe the Rozh does this?

It's not actually 7+ minutes. The tracks are screwed up on the Melodiya  CD. Track 3 is the "salad chopper" of course but it includes the first minute or so of the Largo too before the fourth track kicks in. Rozh's actually timing is 6:42 (the point where the snare drum roll begins, leading into the Largo). It disappointed me when I first heard it. I thought I would be getting an exceptionally slow Allegretto non troppo, but no, it it isn't anything out of the ordinary...although the transition into the Largo is pretty intense.

I haven't heard Wigglesworth (so I can't answer your questions about it) or Previn.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

Also, mustn't go simply by timing with his last movements in the Supraphon box, as there is post-symphony applause.

It's not actually 7+ minutes. The tracks are screwed up on the Melodiya  CD. Track 3 is the "salad chopper" of course but it includes the first minute or so of the Largo too before the fourth track kicks in. Rozh's actually timing is 6:42 (the point where the snare drum roll begins, leading into the Largo). It disappointed me when I first heard it. I thought I would be getting an exceptionally slow Allegretto non troppo, but no, it it isn't anything out of the ordinary...although the transition into the Largo is pretty intense.

I haven't heard Wigglesworth (so I can't answer your questions about it) or Previn.

Sarge

Ah- points taken


However guys- what about that Caetani going for the land speed record? The reviews weren't too kind, though the sound was counted spectacular, and, I'm sure there were some ideas there.

Ideas. Things Conductors have.

I'm of the mind that Conductors should takes each others ideas seriously so that with each new version, they keep building on the piece's 'canon law' until, maybe, we get to transcendence. The 5th's 'testimony' ending being an obvious example that has been picked up.



- waiting on the library AND the mail man - tap tap tap   



(what? listen to something I got last week?? are you kidding me???)

[Karl Henning]

I've only heard Caetani in the Fourth, Ninth & Tenth.  In these, he was very good.  I seem to recall his doing some moderately unusual things in the Fourth, but they were not gratuitous, he made them work musically.  (Now that I say that, I want to revisit that recording . . . .)

In any event, I've not heard his Op.65!

[Sergeant Rock]

However guys- what about that Caetani going for the land speed record? The reviews weren't too kind, though the sound was counted spectacular, and, I'm sure there were some ideas there.

I have the CD but I don't think I've ever listened to it...not with any concentration anyway. Maybe I'll give it a go tonight after dinner...and before the German/Algeria match.

Edit: the Hurwitzer gives it good marks. The review begins: "This excellent performance succeeds in recapturing the "glory days" (musically speaking) of Kondrashin and Mravinsky."

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

This excellent performance succeeds in recapturing the “glory days” (musically speaking) of Kondrashin and Mravinsky.

I wonder why he felt he needed to add that parenthesis.  In the context, it could mean nothing else.

[André]

I wonder why he felt he needed to add that parenthesis.  In the context, it could mean nothing else.

The inverted commas are useless as well, are they not ? Unless he meant it to suggest some ironic, pejorative intent?

[Karl Henning]

The inverted commas are useless as well, are they not ? Unless he meant it to suggest some ironic, pejorative intent?

Indeed!

[North Star]

As in, the not really golden days musically, but golden days otherwise, in the good old Soviet Union. Oh yes..

[snyprrr]

Indeed!

Does anyone even match Karajan's clarinet player in the 2nd 10? You know when they enter into the fast part of the finale?- I mean, it's like a u.f.o. or something. I've never heard anything quite so yummy. By comparison, Ashkenazy's player ends up playing JAZZ! (still ok), and Litton's, in his first recording for Virgin, didn't really register (I also immediately dismissed this fine performance because the clarinet didn't 'ghost in- just so' 2mins. into the 1st mvmt. (you know, the part we all love, I'm sure!- so, it IS important!). I ordered the Shipway/BBC 10- frankly, I probably just should get the Karajan Remaster (can you tell me of any improvements to the somewhat ok early DG DDD?).

I have the CD but I don't think I've ever listened to it...not with any concentration anyway. Maybe I'll give it a go tonight after dinner...and before the German/Algeria match.

Edit: the Hurwitzer gives it good marks. The review begins: "This excellent performance succeeds in recapturing the "glory days" (musically speaking) of Kondrashin and Mravinsky."

Sarge

Just ordered Sanderling/Cleveland 15- I get the feeling Jansons is getting the cut. (fine though it is in parts)


The Litton/Virgin 10- mm, eh- it was fine, but, ee, uh, mm,... comparing it to Karajan yielded no real answer (other than Karajan's sound was a little more up front). He lost me at that crucial clarinet intro- Karajan's player has spoiled us all, haha!!- so, it was hard to keep going (aye- I'm SOOOO dismissive!!). ON THE PILE IT GOES!! ('that' pile)

If I'm going to get any more 10ths- it MUST have everything  and more that Karajan's has, with even better sound and (please) dynamic levels (the quiet passages are ridiculous in the original, NOT 'The Originals'- is that latter one any better sonically?), and the flippin' clarinet better be right!

[snyprrr]

I think that would be a mistake.  Good to the last drop! 

Petrenko's 4th is starting to call!

[snyprrr]

Symphony No.4


The 'Spectacular Ones'

Salonen/DG
Chung/DG
Jansons/EMI
Rattle/EMI
Gergiev/Philips
Rostropovich/Teldec

Haitink/London
Ashkenazy/Decca
Ashenazy II/Decca (w/Japanese orch.)

Jarvi/Chandos


Other Current Top Choices

Rozhd./RussianDisc (1980s)
M.Shostakovich/Supraphon
Haitink/CSOResound


Labels with Good Engineering Reputations

Kofman/MDG
Boreyko/Hanssler


Two Odd Ducks

Herbig/Berlin
Kegel/Weitblick


The Rest of the Modern, High Profile Recordings

"more info"

Barshai/Brilliant
Petrenko/Naxos
Caetani/Arts
Slovak/Naxos
Bychkov/Avie
Raiskin/Cavi-Music
Inbal/Denon

"less info"

Polyansky/VistaVera
Wigglesworth/BIS
Judd/NuevaEra
Simonov/Cypres
Venzago/MusiquesSuisse


The Three Americans

Ormandy/SONY
Slatkin/RCA
Previn/EMI


The Originals

Rozhd./Alliance (1962)
Kondrashin/Profil (1960s)
Kondrtashin/Melodya-BMG
---/Regis-TransitionsLive???

[snyprrr]

I wasn't paying attention. So there are two Gergiev 4s. All the raves are for the Kirov,... but... the Mariinsky samples sounded better? Which is the one everyone creams over?

[Ken B]

The inverted commas are useless as well, are they not ? Unless he meant it to suggest some ironic, pejorative intent?

"The" Hurwitzer? (Surely) you jest.

[kishnevi]

I wasn't paying attention. So there are two Gergiev 4s. All the raves are for the Kirov,... but... the Mariinsky samples sounded better? Which is the one everyone creams over?

Kirov on Philips.  Look at the release date for the Mariinsky and you will see why.

[Karl Henning]

I wasn't paying attention. So there are two Gergiev 4s. All the raves are for the Kirov,... but... the Mariinsky samples sounded better? Which is the one everyone creams over?

The Kirov is the Mariinsky (I mean, the theatre/orchestra;  there may, or there may not, be two recordings).  The theatre was named after Tsar Aleksandr II's wife, Maria Aleksandrovna;  in the Soviet era it was renamed after Kirov, the leader of the Leningrad Communist Party whom Stalin had murdered early on in his power-securing days . . . .