Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[Karl Henning]

This 'un, I guess:

[asin]B00002541V[/asin]

[snyprrr]

This 'un, I guess:

[asin]B00002541V[/asin]

If you could have ONLY ONE Jansons??


No.1- Berlin- this one has been highly criticized, and no one buys this

Nos. 2/12- BRSO- they say this one's tops

Nos. 3/14- BRSO- some like this a lot; I can't take the soprano

No.4-BRSO?- Most everyone at least recommends this as competent, so, this should be somewhat a recommend, eh?

5(Oslo)- replaced by
5(Vienna)- some like this one a lot, and why wouldn't one want to hear Vienna in this?? so what if it's 'Viennese'

Nos.6/9- Oslo- mimicking the famous Bernstein 6/9 split, I have only general positive feedback, nothing specific (orchestra plays great)

No.7- Leningrad- well??

No.8- Pittsburgh- IS THIS THE ONE?

No.10- Philadelphia- does it fall to No.8?

No.11- London- how does this stack up against the Greats (and who are they??)

No.13-BRSO- IS THIS THE ONE? (you know how Masur, Solti, et al have disappointed me) does the opening have The IT?

No.15-London- this is the only one I have, and I was initially disappointed. Though he still contends with the likes of Solti, I don't see how this can be a Top3.




As far as Rattle-


No.1- no one's touting this

No.4- Jansons seems to win in direct comparison

No.10- no one's really touting this

No.14- some like it







Haitink seems to rule 8 and 13

Ashkenazy has some ARDENT admirers, liking his 4, 5, 7, 10,... I do like his low wattage 5th, and love the 9/15 performances.

Rostropovich is a Sleeper, having admirers in 1/9, 2/3, 4, both 5ths (though I'm not all that keen on the Teldecm STILL waiting on DDG!), 7, 14, and 15, though 13 may be good,... they don't like his 8th, not sure about 10---- surely 11 must have a ppppppp opening?

Jarvi rocks in 1/6, 2/3, 45678910- but I'm recommending to stay far away from 11-15.


Slovak is good in 4 and 14

Caetani's controversial set has gotten stand out reviews i n 11 and 14 and maybe 10, maybe 1/15

Kofman has gotten good reviews in, I think, 7,... 5/9??... 14... 13?- he apparently has some problems

Inbal has a very intriguing second 5th; however, he consistently gets middlin to wrong reviews- 14 gets praise,... 4... 13?...

I'll let Ray do Petrenko

[kishnevi]

Have you taken a look at Rostropovich's LSO recordings
5 8 11
I think 8 and 11 beat most of the competition I have heard except Kondrashin.  Both 8 snd 11 are definitely better than Haitink.

[Karl Henning]

Have you taken a look at Rostropovich's LSO recordings
5 8 11
I think 8 and 11 beat most of the competition I have heard except Kondrashin.  Both 8 and 11 are definitely better than Haitink.

Dadfrazzanabit, sir, you interest me.

[Karl Henning]

If you could have ONLY ONE Jansons??

Well, I remember an excellent Eighth, practically as fine as Haitink's. I still think better of his Fifteenth than you appear to.

[Sergeant Rock]

Rostropovich....both 5ths (though I'm not all that keen on the Teldecm STILL waiting on DDG!)

All three of Slava's recordings are similar in interpretation (with that ironic monster of a Finale, smiling through gritted teeth) . I have DG and Teldec (Warner), prefer the Teldec marginally because it has superior sonics (the DG is early digital, the Teldec was recorded twelve years later). Things like the piano entry are clearer in the Teldec (the brass swamp the piano in the DG). The opening two notes, so important to snyprrr, are bolder, more powerful.  I don't know if the Teldec is available outside the box, though. If not, DG will do. LSO Live is supposed to be good too.

[kishnevi]

Dadfrazzanabit, sir, you interest me.

It is true that my opinion is influenced by the fact that Slava/LSO was my introduction to 8 and 11, but even more important the recordings that sparked my interest in DSCH.  So perhaps I am  bit biased about them.  But dadfrazzanabit the are excellent performances.

[snyprrr]

sLAVA/ddg FINALLY ARRIVED! (whoops!)

Hold on a second and let's recap, before I tell you how I feel about Slava/DDG. This has been an interesting re-examination. So far:

Lenny59(library)
Lenny79
Mackerras
Ashkenazy
Haitink(library)
Rostropovich/DDG
Rostropovich/Teldec(YouTube)


First, can you guess which one I liked best? (though, frankly, I'm not sure any are Absolutely Perfect) Please do guess- it's such a fun game...



ok, let's start from the bottom- AND AS YOU KNOW, THE FIRST NOTES ARE GOING TO EITHER THRILL OR INFLAME-

Ashkenazy- this was my 5th back in the day, picked over Haitink due to Penguin Guide saying how 'icy' the slow movement was. Well,- look- I got it again, and- I still like it a lot, but YES it IS THE MOST low wattage opening of all the above. SantaFe calls it "piffle". He actually warms up from there, and though it IS quite a careful interpretation (it was their first together), there IS still this icy clarity in a very cool Decca sound (smallish, but not boxy) which makes it the perfect version to bounce things off. And the first thing you're going to want to bounce, is the other Decca, Haitink-

Haitink- just found it at the library,... put it in... waiting for the first notes- AHHH- Haitink is full of Win from the opening, thank God, the only thing is I'd rather not have the low and high strings so separated, but, other than that, the SOUND is Spectacularly good, as everyone knows. And, anyhow, people have little quibbles with this or that with Haitink, but, generally, he makes a great foil to Ashkenazy above.

Mackerras- his opening, at first, sounds even smaller than Ashkenazy's, but, on further review, Ashkenazy has the smallest opening. Mackerras is simply playing possum and gets pretty loud later (he's actually pretty butch in the opening, it's just recorded small right there). Once the smallish opening wears off, however, Mackerras begins to let loose, and his brass is quite succulent in the big climaxes. I put Mackerras slightly above Ashkenazy (but not in Sound) and slightly below Haitink (but only for Sound really- Mackerras might be the best overall performance, but the other two have orgasmic sound).

Rosty/Teldec- something just rubbed me the wrong way here... I don't know... very fierce...

Rosty/DDG- well, that opening?- HAAATED it- I mean, you know it's boxy and all... I mean, it almost sounds as small as the Ashkenazy, but it does actually have an extra decibel or two, but, I mean, that is one boxy DDG acoustic. LISTEN CLOSE to that first note: I hear a 'coffee cup' sound as if the basses are slapping the strings- you can hear the unflattering acoustic right behind them.

Frankly, I wanted to throw it across the room. WHO ARE these people- who recommend this, I'm thinking. AND THEN!!!!!! then there's the "rough and ready" 9read: SLOPPY!!!!) NSO, wow, I know I heard a slur in the first movement.

OK OK OK- now the GOOD NEWS!!

Actually, the famous ending - I didn't even noticed that it was different (it was just... The Ending). I forgot how the fast ones went (just as I forgot this one when they played). But, yea, I certainly liked the ending!

I'll admit that I found the orchestra's somewhat amateur sounding playing endearing. There are some really strange string sounds in the slow movement that popped my eyes, but they sounded 'cool' even though they must have been technically a flub. And even though the recording sounded like a veiled Ozawa recording (with the xylophone and piano hiding), there were moments when the sheer brutality did cut through.

To me, this Rosty sounds like a brontosaurus,... which... CAN be cool! I CAN hear the 'history' and blah blah.  But I have to call it Guilty Pleasure in a way, mm?

Lenny59- WWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA??? FLIPPITY DING DONGS!!!!

Maaan,... HELLO!!- someone finally got that opening correct!! This Lenny is THE LOUDEST high wattage recording of the bunch, and by a wide margin. Lenny79 follows, then Haitink. But, you know, who can tell this is 1959? I can't. Now THIS is what I call 'rough and ready!!

Really, people do complain about this one a LOT! The sound, the this, the that. Eh. The mere fact that I don't have to ride the volume knob  is Point #1. And, generally, there is a high level of emotion (though Rosty pretty well takes it). Sure, the ending is "too" fast in the blatant word, but, I guess I'll give Lenny a pass just like I gave Ashkenazy a pass? I mean, it seems like it would be a toss-up between this and Haitink for me,... and that's why I'd probably have to pick Ashkenazy. MAKE NO MISTAKE- THIS is definitely the Best Overall so far, for me and my purpose at this time,... I can't give it a bad rating no matter what the problems are.

Lenny79- that leaves the other end of controversy. My immediate reaction to the opening here was, "It's kinda bassy." Not boomy, but one of those open...mm...RCA sounds? But, once your hearing adjusts, things seem to go by just fine. Had we the immediacy of any of the other recordings we might have a winner, but there are so many factors in play. This was by far the most funereal so far (though no match for Maxim?) and as such seemed like another Special Awards Winner and not necessarily a First Choice. Though, he does get that opening right, again! (I just don't get why anyone would do otherwise than to PROCLAIM that opening (you can't just STATE it))


So, now you've actually got me needing to hear Mravinsky (which year??label??). I can't be any more disappointed, haha!??!!

BUT...SO...

That leaves some questions that DEMAND answers!!! Someone please tell me what Qualifies or Disqualifies the following:

Bychkov1 (Philips)

Muti (EMI)

Solti (Solti)

Jansons2 (EMI)

Inbal2 (Denon)

Jansons2 and Inbal2 especially have garnered some interesting reviews. Who doesn't want Vienna? But- is Muti as barbaric as his 'Le Sacre'? Is Solti viable? Inquiring minds want to know! Bychkov just sits there asking, Am I any good? Look, I've got Berlin! Love me! WhoWHO??

[aukhawk]

Once I have more than 3 versions of a piece I tend to file the least-loved away into a 'never to be listened to again' folder.  Of the five versions of the 5th I've got, the two I've disposed of have been Inbal, and Haitink.  Neither of them are really 'edgy' enough for me, in Shostakovich, even the 5th which is perhaps his least-edgy symphony. 
And I could say the same about the sound - a Rolls-Royce-type plush audio quality doesn't really help, for me.  But then I bought a lot of Melodiya records back in the '70s, which could explain that.

[snyprrr]

Once I have more than 3 versions of a piece I tend to file the least-loved away into a 'never to be listened to again' folder.  Of the five versions of the 5th I've got, the two I've disposed of have been Inbal, and Haitink.  Neither of them are really 'edgy' enough for me, in Shostakovich, even the 5th which is perhaps his least-edgy symphony. 
And I could say the same about the sound - a Rolls-Royce-type plush audio quality doesn't really help, for me.  But then I bought a lot of Melodiya records back in the '70s, which could explain that.

That's the 2nd Inbal, with Frankfurt (instead of ViennSOa)??

Yea, I was actually thinking Lenny79 sounded a bit plush (even though it has such a 'bleak' reputation)- but I could handle that level of it. Yea, I was wondering if Bychkov/philips or Jansons/ViennaPO would be 'too plush'.

Actually, I can handle Haitink, but if I just found someone one notch higher I might put him away too. Mackerras has actually raised a few points from my initial lashing.

Who did you keep? (lemme guess- Mavrinsky, Rosty1, "anonymous Decca")

[aukhawk]

(checks dusty, unlit corner) no, the Inbal 5th I've got is the VSO, coupled with the 2nd on Denon.
For keepers my main man is Previn/LSO, with Petrenko for the 'alternative ending', and Svetlanov.  But hey, I probably only listen to this music once in 2 years - so even 3 versions might last me the rest of my lifetime!

[snyprrr]

Yes, I mean the one coupled with Ma/Ormandy.

Haitink hits the spot, Bernstein too. I was disappointed by Järvi and Rostropovich. I have Termirkov, and a half dozen others too, but have no memory of them. I should conduct a not-so-blind comparison.

Sarge

Which Bernstein did you like in the 6th? I just noticed the SONY  (1966?)- The DDG has always gotten tepid reviews, but this SONY gets pretty high marks. and it comes with what they say is a Mahlerian 1st. (and how does THAT compare to DDG 1/7?). I think I'd rather have the 1st dealt with in this fashion...

[vandermolen]

This 'un, I guess:

[asin]B00002541V[/asin]

Yes, Karl that's the one - great disc.

[Sergeant Rock]

Which Bernstein did you like in the 6th?

DG...I don't know the Sony. Late Lenny is always controversial. I'm not surprised there are negative reviews.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

DG...I don't know the Sony. Late Lenny is always controversial. I'm not surprised there are negative reviews.

Sarge

I might try that earlier one.

Here's some 'leftovers' combinations:


1+2+3:

Wigglesworth
Kondrashin(Japan)


1+3:

Haitink
Rozh

Slovak
Petrenko


2+3:

Haitink
Jarvi
Rosty


1+9:

Weller
Susskind

Haitink
Rosty


1+6:

Bernstein/SONY
Jarvi
Ashkenazy
Temirkanov
Fedosseyev
Skrowaczewski?
Sanderling
Pletnev
Boreyko
Kofman


5+9:

Mravinsky
Rozh
Rahbari
Bernstein
Levi
Haitink
Gergiev
Temirkanov
Petrenko
Slovak
Kreizberg
Caetani
Kofman
Spivakov
Kosler

[snyprrr]

Solti

recorded two 9s

one with Vienna

one with Canegie... both 'live' I believe?...



Does anyone have the direct compare?

[snyprrr]

Solti

recorded two 9s

one with Vienna

one with Canegie... both 'live' I believe?...



Does anyone have the direct compare?

Also, Anyone able to compare Solti's Vienna 5th and Jansons's Vienna 5th?

[Madiel]

I started reading this thread at page 1...

...parts of it are hilarious. There's some calm, measured posting, but there's also all sorts of vicious sniping and culture wars and sonic arguments and...

...then I got to page 46, where snyprrr says he's read the thread from the beginning and declares it NOT VERY HELPFUL! That cracked me up.

I note that there's another 16 pages since then, in the space of a couple of months. Are they going to be helpful pages? *makes cup of tea*

[Madiel]

By the way, the set I'm currently most interested in is probably Jansons. With one or two cautionary concerns which people might be able to address.

1. There's a lot of comments at Amazon about faulty pressings. Anyone had personal experience of this?

2. Are there texts for the vocal works?

3. Symphony No.14 is in Russian, right? I don't know that many conductors go for the alternative German or multilingual versions, but I want Russian.

[North Star]

1. The faulty pressings must be very old, mine is fine (and a couple of years old).
2. Yes.
3. Yes.