Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[snyprrr]

I hear Prokofiev.  However despite that (because I don't much like Prokofiev's orchestral stuff) the 1st is my favourite symphony, along with the 15th.   Caetani is terrific in the 1st, and Ormandy indispensible.  Others I've tried (Bernstein, Celidibache, Haitink, Gergiev, Sanderling) don't really add anything.

I had not, but now that you say it, that opening muted trumpet gesture does feel like an overlap with Sergei Sergeyevich.  Well, better still, a common ground with (additionally) Stravinsky (especially Petrushka, which was an early and enduring influence for Dmitri Dmitriyevich).  I find the First a wonderful "cocktail":  It's young, bold, assured, wears its several influences well, and yet also belongs to the young composer himself.

Prokofiev... sure... he came first and was a 'Bad Boy', so, of course- AND, there's the 'French' part too. There is CERTAINLY something of the open air festival/fairgrounds that reminds of Mussorgsky/Petrouska that one can hear all throughout DSCH- along with what I call the 'Maritime Sound' (is it clarinet + flute?) that figures in Myaskovsky as well- 'The Sinking of a Great Battleship Melody'?

Anyhow, No.1- agreed,... it's one I'd more enjoying listening to on any given day.





I am now awaiting the last few 'research CDs' to arrive, having almost 5 versions of each of the important works with which to study and/or discard. I certainly have NOT kept up the rigorous listening schedule this has required, so, I definitely do not deserve to keep 'using' the ButItNow! button,... oy vey, haha.

Still, I've accumulated quite a bit of reject CDs,... double oy vey... that I'm sure I'll be offering to you soon enough on the ebay. Hey... YOU might like them!!

With the case of the 4th Symphony, all the recordings left that I'd like are at full price $$$ and would actually require a commitment, so I haaave to tread ever so lightly the closer to $20 any CD gets. That's the only reason I haven't taken up anyone's particular recommendations, that's all.

[bwv 1080]

The shipping is a lot cheaper for MP3s

[Ken B]

The shipping is a lot cheaper for MP3s

Not from Amazon Italy I bet.

[Madiel]

The shipping is a lot cheaper for MP3s

And yet, you'd be surprised how much more all forms of download can cost when you're halfway around the world. Whether it's the higher iTunes price, or the most infamous example, which is that for one of Adobe's pieces of software it's cheaper to fly from Australia to LA and back to buy a physical copy than it is to download it here in Australia.

[snyprrr]

cAN anyone compare Temirkanov's and Jansons's 13ths? Aleksashkin is the soloist in both- Temirkanov's RCA recording is reputed to be a bit more recessed; EMI's recording sounds spectacular. Aleksashkin is accused of sounding "tired" from some quarters.

And not mention of Rostropovich's 13th. hmm...

[snyprrr]

Symphony No. 10 Op.93

Karajan '83 BPO


Shipway RPO

A.Davis LPO

Ashkenazy RPO

Litton/Virgin LPO


Is there a clarinettist alive who can match Karajan's? If one were to rely only on this, Karajan would probably go on for infinity, for I haven't found one who 'ghosts' into the first movement quite like the Berliner. And then in the zippy coda to the finale, this player sounds like no other; all others sound like mere mortals.

But, let's take some other considerations into play. Karajan's sound in the original CD is classic DG 'airless box' which is really artificial compared to these modern times we live in; however, once the ear adjusts, Karajan's performance steams along, only marred by the 'Volume Knob Syndrome' which requires superhuman attention and focus if one is to hear the quieter passages without 'Remote Dynamics Levelling'!

So, how does the roster compare? Fairly easily, it turns out. Now, Karajan's levels aren't the hottest at the opening, and, frankly, his is a recording one needs to turn up some (and, I really wish we could get some input as to whether the 'Originals' re-issue has any Miracle Remastering, in which case all of my criticisms would be null and void). Litton has the lowest levels, sounding as if the mic was set up in the back of an empty auditorium. Ashkenazy, to my surprise, is almost weaker than Litton, and seems to actually be the hardest to hear in a normal scenario. Shipway's 'live' recording actually has some decent levels, and Andrew Davis is afforded the best of all, so that one really really hears every note from the opening on.

Comparisons of the innocuous opening of the third movement 'Allegretto' yielded no real interpretive insights, but only, again, highlighted the various dynamic levels of each recording, with Ashkenazy at the bottom with an annoyingly low volume level (comparatively; interpretively he's still got some clout). This is also where Karajan is somewhat difficult to hear; only Davis, again, made listening not-a-chore.

For now, let's just leave it with the 'Allegro'. Karajan's boxy sound is the highlight of his opening, though he certainly corners the market in incisiveness. Litton sounds like he's making a furious romp in the next building... down the street, and, shockingly, Ashkenazy's recording is not much (if any) better, really disappointing in its impact. I just couldn't believe anyone would record this music from such a distance, or with such levels- it needs to be in-your-face, and even Karajan doesn't really make me fear for my life here.

Shipway alleviates the misery by having a nice, biting attack from the outset, with decent 'live' levels- which makes one wonder even more about the reasoning behind the distance in the other two. And then, again, Davis is afforded what I would simply call "normal" levels. I mean, what's going on here that everyone wants to be 'nice' with DSCH10? Davis's sound gives one some sorely needed impact, as if there was percussion from the outset- I mean, even though Karajan has 'bite' here, his boxy sound doesn't really allow for any bloom (and, surely, the Berliners are too polite!??), so, only Davis is given the sound needed to project this music. I will say, though, that Davis takes the 'Allegro' juuust a little slower than everyone else, and this effect was noted as I went through each one- it's not a bad effect, just jarring when everyone else seems to be a few seconds of one another- still, it works just fine, and, given the impact of the sound, his comes off quite well as a "gruff" version, whereas many others seem a more "regimented" approach?

So, I will continue to compare here, but, Davis is out and ahead by quite a margin. I suggest you track down this 1974 recording- I think the reason it's not getting the press is because it's down at Page14 of the Amazon Discography! Mine was a bit cheaper from Amazon.uk, but it's still not the most available disc ever.- definitely worth the search!

Andrew Davis/London Philharmonic (EMI- Classics-for-Pleasure) 1974-5

[snyprrr]

Previn 73 vs Haitink 8-

I was listening to Haitink's first movement, and, towards the noisy part, I wondered who might nail the emotion better... I mean, apparently Haitink IS a bit cool and has the rep to back it up! So, I go back to the Previn,... and... yes, oh, yes, that's what we were missing in the Haitink. Now I'm totally suspicious of the likes of Jansons here- I'd be more willing to try Jarvi here than anyone else at this point.

It's going to have to be at least as good as the Previn73, but with soundSoundSOUND! And Previn's sound is just fine as it is, so- I wonder- and I'm just not hearing anything about THE 8th (except, of course, mm,hm,mm) next to Previn (except mm,hm,mm)... I'd be happy to stick with him, but I like Haitink's sound... who?... what?...err...

[snyprrr]

What is the very best of the Barshai Cycle?

His sound seems pretty good, but raw,- not audiophile by any stretch- 'live'-one certainly hasn't heard anything specific about any one particular piece standing out. Who knows?

[snyprrr]

Been listening to the library's Haitink 6 & 11. These two seem to fit Haitink's detachment perfectly in CinemaScope. The 6th sounds like Sibelius to me (in general), and Haitink really shine in the nature poetry. And the sound is Decca's best.

Although I require my opening harp to resound in the 11th a la Stokowski (and only Stokowski), I gave Haitink some latitude, and- he surely gets loud later, - though I just wish conductors would just make the opening audible,... I mean, reeeally... other than that, once we get into the soundworld, Stokowski's sound fades into the past.

This set might be a FirstChoice for many. Any and all of Haitink's weaknesses are turned into strengths here. And, the Russian 'Overture' sounds a bit better here than in Jarvi's Goteborg DG- and it's solely due the the refined orchestra, the sumptuous engineering, and the space.

[Brahmsian]

Previn 73 vs Haitink 8-

I was listening to Haitink's first movement, and, towards the noisy part, I wondered who might nail the emotion better... I mean, apparently Haitink IS a bit cool and has the rep to back it up! So, I go back to the Previn,... and... yes, oh, yes, that's what we were missing in the Haitink. Now I'm totally suspicious of the likes of Jansons here- I'd be more willing to try Jarvi here than anyone else at this point.

The only thing the Haitink 8 is missing....is nothing.  It's the bomb. 

[Brahmsian]

What is the very best of the Barshai Cycle?

His sound seems pretty good, but raw,- not audiophile by any stretch- 'live'-one certainly hasn't heard anything specific about any one particular piece standing out. Who knows?

The 5th. Hands down.  Pretty good 6th too.  I like the #2, #3 and #12 as well, but I know these are not necessarily the symphonies people listen too, except for the die hards. 

[Brahmsian]

What is the very best of the Barshai Cycle?

His sound seems pretty good, but raw,- not audiophile by any stretch- 'live'-one certainly hasn't heard anything specific about any one particular piece standing out. Who knows?

Oh, forgot that this has a very good 7th, IMO.   A good, properly paced (not too slow 2nd movement).  Great opening movement! 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

What is the very best of the Barshai Cycle?

His sound seems pretty good, but raw,- not audiophile by any stretch-

Barshai? The sound is astonishingly vivid! Not raw. Audiophile and then some.

[snyprrr]

The only thing the Haitink 8 is missing....is nothing.  It's the bomb. 

You don't think he sounds just a tiny bit cool compared to Previn73? mmm?

Barshai? The sound is astonishingly vivid! Not raw. Audiophile and then some.

I'm listening... tell me about the 13th... is the choir recorded well and not recessed at the back?

The 5th. Hands down.  Pretty good 6th too.  I like the #2, #3 and #12 as well, but I know these are not necessarily the symphonies people listen too, except for the die hards. 

yesyes but what of the 13th?? Why didn't you mention it first? why? why? why? what's wrong with it? tell me nooooow!! I'm having a babiYar meltdown here... next post...

[snyprrr]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

It just got Rostropovich's 13th. AAHH!! from the first note it's obvious the recording levels are where everyone else is- NOT as good as Haitink.

Masur

Solti

Rostropovich

Shallon (awful sound)

Kamu

Jarvi

NOT AS GOOD AS HAITINK!!






i'm exasperated... WHY? won't they record the opening at a decent volume? Why do they play Symphony 11 here and opening inaudibly? WHY WHY WHY???

I'm getting pissed. (btw- Rosty's chorus starts off real mild too- but then it gets loud- aaaahhhhh- when will I be loved???)


THAT LEAVES BARSHAI or JANSONS... and maybe Caetani or Kofman... Temirkanov I hear is recorded from the back...


SO, WHICH IS IT???


I'VE HAD IT!!!


I THOUGHT REPLACING HAITINK WAS GOING TO BE AN EASY JOY!!!!






AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


All you alls... who am I supposed to trust now?


I fully expect to be blown away AND totally disappointed by the Jansons.

Barshai could be great, but no one has mentioned this, so I get suspicious.


WHY COULDN'T THIS BE EASY??





wHAT IS YOUR NAME AND WHAT IS YOUR QUEST?

[kishnevi]

The only performance in the Barshai cycle I disliked was the 11th.   
But I tend to focus on what the performers are doing and far less on what the recording engineers are doing.  Which is why my current favorite set is the Kondrashin.

I can suggest one recording that will satisfy your quest for sonic perfection:  the new recording of Concierto de Aranjuez by Milos.   True, it is not music of Shostakovich but you have to settle for what you can get.

[Ken B]

The problem snyprrr is that you are fixated on replacing the recording. You should be replacing the symphony.

[asin]B00009L4W5[/asin]

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I'm listening... tell me about the 13th... is the choir recorded well and not recessed at the back?

Choir positioned optimally. Soloist could be a smidgen more forward but nothing to fret about.

[vandermolen]

Went to concert featuring Symphony 4 in London last night (Petrenko, European Youth Orchestra). Very fine performance and great to hear it live. Am not surprised, in view of the manic and doom-laden resonances, why Shostakovich withdrew the work in 1936!

[aukhawk]

Although I require my opening harp to resound in the 11th a la Stokowski (and only Stokowski), I gave Haitink some latitude, and- he surely gets loud later, - though I just wish conductors would just make the opening audible,... I mean, reeeally...

I share your pain - it's a real problem in all the 'modern' recordings of the 11th that I've heard, going back to De Priest/Helsinki, which is my favourite 11th - that must have been almost the last LP I bought, and even on vinyl the dynamic range was ridiculous.  The ratio of v.quiet music to v.loud music in this symphony is such that modern high-dynamic recordings are just impossible.  Thank goodness for remote controls.
Stokowski I heard on AM radio (and taped it) it must have been a repeat of his premiere perfomance, broadcast around 1960 - a thrilling listen - one way and another my tape must have had a dynamic range of about 5dB  I wish I still had that!