Carmen!

Brian · April 25, 2007, 03:07:17 PM

I really want to buy a full Carmen box set. The music has been beckoning to me for as long as I can remember ...

My parents have a CD of highlights with Karajan and Price, and there's something about it (can't figure it out) that I dislike. It just doesn't seem right. I've listened to Naxos' recording (Graciela Alperyn as Carmen) on their website and enjoy it a good deal more, but there surely has to be a performance with more magic or at least one you'd recommend more highly. What shall I try? Which set is your favorite?

Anne · April 25, 2007, 03:57:44 PM

Quote from: brianrein on April 25, 2007, 03:07:17 PM
I really want to buy a full Carmen box set. The music has been beckoning to me for as long as I can remember ...

My parents have a CD of highlights with Karajan and Price, and there's something about it (can't figure it out) that I dislike. It just doesn't seem right. I've listened to Naxos' recording (Graciela Alperyn as Carmen) on their website and enjoy it a good deal more, but there surely has to be a performance with more magic or at least one you'd recommend more highly. What shall I try? Which set is your favorite?

I would recommed my favorite for 10 years: the Rosi film with Placido Domingo, Julia Migenes-Johnson, and conducted by Lorin Maazel. No other version has measured up to this performance IMO. There is real and very good acting plus the voices are good. At the beginning just before the opera itself starts, we see a bullfight and the blood as the bull falls down.

If you choose this performance, I would love to hear your reaction. As I type this I can hear the singers' voices in my head. Wonderful performance!

PerfectWagnerite · April 25, 2007, 04:28:21 PM

Quote from: brianrein on April 25, 2007, 03:07:17 PM
I really want to buy a full Carmen box set. The music has been beckoning to me for as long as I can remember ...

My parents have a CD of highlights with Karajan and Price, and there's something about it (can't figure it out) that I dislike. It just doesn't seem right.

There are two reasons the CD you have stinks:

1) Karajan: The most effortful conducting of this opera ever, completely misses the humor and wit. Actually not unlike his conducting of La Boheme and M. Butterfly. Some extremely plodding tempi and allowing L. Price to milk it add to the drugery.
2) L. Price: A complete miscast. She makes a good Aida and Amelia(in Ballo) but utterly lacks any charm as Carmen. The spinto voice is just wrong for the role. Get the feeling that she dislikes the role? Because she sure does. Fact: she sings that role because like Isolde it is a hot-ticket role for big $$$. Since no one in their right mind would indulge her in recording Isolde she settled for the next best thing.

I have the misfortune of owning the complete Karajan/Price set. You are fortunate, you only have 1 disc.

Tsaraslondon · April 26, 2007, 02:49:18 AM

Well, here we go. You will probably get as many recommendations for Carmen as there are recordings. Everyone has theire own idea as to how it should go. I suppose this is testament to the greatness of the opera. It can take a wide variety of approaches and still emerge triumphant.
One of the main problems is that of editions. Pre the Oeser edition of 1964, all recordings used the now discredited Guiraud recitatives instead of spoken dialogue, which probably means we should discount them completely. However, by so doing, we lose two appreciable Carmens in Victoria De Los Angeles and Maria Callas. Post 1964, things don't get any easier as no two recordings use exactly the same editions. It really is very complicated and in the end, choice will no doubt come down to preference for certain singers and conductors.
Safest bets are probably the 1975 Solti (with Troyanos, Domingo, Te Kanawa and Van Dam), 1978 Abbado (Berganza, Domingo, Cotrubas, Milnes) and 1982 Maazel (Migenes, Domingo, Esham, Raimondi). I don't own any of them however. I have two recordings, which both come down to my preference for certain singers. Both sets are seriously flawed in places, but I wouldn't be without either of them.
1) Callas, Gedda, Guiot, Massard; Pretre Though in the old discredited Guiraud version, this performance is actually very French in feel, albeit with a glamorous imported star in the lead role. I much prefer Pretre's conducting to that on my other set, swifter and much more in the opera-comique tradition. Callas is never less than interesting, though the voice is raw at the top of the stave - just as well she doesn't have to stray up there very often. She may not be conventional but here definitely is the dangereuse et belle woman Micaela refers to. Micaela herself is in the very capable hands of Andrea Guiot, who sings the role a lot better than many of her more famous colleagues. Massard is also excellent as Escamillo and Gedda superb as Don Jose, a perfect embodiment of a nice boy gone bad,
2. Baltsa, Carreras, Ricciarelli, Van Dam; Karajan This one I have solely for the performance of the two leading roles. I saw Baltsa and Carreras in this opera at Covent Garden, in the early 1980s and it has remained one of the most memorable evenings I have ever spent in the opera house. Their performances have transfered well to the gramophone, but, truth to tell, are the only reasons one would listen to this recording. Karajan's decision to use the Oeser edition with dialogue is vitiated by the use of actors' voices. He also conducts in a ponderous, overblown manner. Van Dam is good, as he always was in this opera, but he is better represented elsewhere, and Ricciarelli is completely miscast and out of her element. Unless, like me, you want a memento of two great singers at their best, then I would give it a wide berth.
Back to received opinion. Go for Abbado, but maybe give the Callas a listen. It is never dull, that's for sure

knight66 · April 26, 2007, 05:40:58 AM

I very much enjoy the Frubeck de Burgos version with Grace Bumbry as an under rated Carmen and Jon Vickers. It was the first to use spoken dialogue. The rhythms are well sprung and it is available on Classics For Pleasure.

I don't have any avertion to the Karajan/Price set, but it does not sound French at all, more Italian as Corelli really goes for it. The sound is overblown, but I get quite a bit out of it.

Ozawa recorded it with Jessye Norman who I think is very convincing and she is playful and able to lighten the sheer weight of her voice so as not to flood it with tone. Mirella Freni is the Sop. and was a bit too old to portray the ingenue.

Bernstein mauls the score to the point it makes me wince. Horne is the big attraction, she is first rate. Mc Cracken seems too raw in tone for my taste, but he is committed.

Beecham, much loved by others, it all just seems too civilised to me, no real blood on the sand.

Mike

Tsaraslondon · April 26, 2007, 06:08:24 AM

Quote from: knight on April 26, 2007, 05:40:58 AM
I very much enjoy the Frubeck de Burgos version with Grace Bumbry as an under rated Carmen and Jon Vickers. It was the first to use spoken dialogue. The rhythms are well sprung and it is available on Classics For Pleasure.

Mike

Strange to say, Mike, though I usually agree with you, I don't here. I found Bumbry's well sung account somewhat anonymous (rather like that of Troyanos). Vickers, though, is superb. And Freni is here caught at the right time for the role of Micaela. I believe there is a film with Bumbry and Vickers, though this time conducted by Karajan. Have you seen it?

Valentino · April 26, 2007, 06:17:18 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 26, 2007, 02:49:18 AM1978 Abbado (Berganza, Domingo, Cotrubas, Milnes)

I'm very happy with this one. If I was to buy another it would be a DVD.

rubio · April 26, 2007, 10:41:36 AM

I also like the Abbado recording a lot. It sounds close to perfect for me, and I don't really feel the need for another version. I have read that the Abbado is one of the most "Spanish-sounding" ones and that is one important criteria for me. Any other highly "Spanish-sounding" recordings out there?

knight66 · April 26, 2007, 11:11:46 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 26, 2007, 06:08:24 AM
I believe there is a film with Bumbry and Vickers, though this time conducted by Karajan. Have you seen it?

Yes and in all honesty is is dead as a Dodo. It is one Karajan directed as a stage performance and it feels as though they are wading through aspic rather than high on Champers. Karajan makes a Hitchcock like appearance as a peasant with a mustache.

It is mimed to a soundtrack, so many handycaps really. BTW, no probs with us disagreeing.....I may be too easily pleased in this instance.

Mike

karlhenning · April 26, 2007, 11:13:42 AM

Do I understand this right? Von Karajan and Carmen?

Include me out

knight66 · April 26, 2007, 11:18:51 AM

I think sir, you will find that is von Karajan. D

Ghost of M

karlhenning · April 26, 2007, 11:20:14 AM

Quote from: knight on April 26, 2007, 11:18:51 AM
I think sir, you will find that is von Karajan. D

Ghost of M

:-)

Even when beginning a sentence (or sentence fragment)? (He asks with genuine orthographical interest.)

knight66 · April 26, 2007, 11:27:10 AM

Oh yes you are probably right, but it could have been all one sentence with a comma, then I would have got you....or not.

Mike

MishaK · April 26, 2007, 11:31:25 AM

How about Solti with Troyanos, Domingo, Te Kanawa, van Dam? I am rather fond of that set.

Tsaraslondon · April 26, 2007, 12:16:33 PM

Quote from: knight on April 26, 2007, 11:11:46 AM
Yes and in all honesty is is dead as a Dodo. It is one Karajan directed as a stage performance and it feels as though they are wading through aspic rather than high on Champers. Karajan makes a Hitchcock like appearance as a peasant with a mustache.

It is mimed to a soundtrack, so many handycaps really. BTW, no probs with us disagreeing.....I may be too easily pleased in this instance.

Mike

Ah, I had a feeling it might be a dud. I have the Met DVD with Baltsa and Carreras, caught a little too late in their partnership. By the time it was taped, they had been singing the roles all over the world for quite a few years and it is beginning to show. Their performances lack the spontaneity and freshness of what I saw at Covent Garden, though they still convince.

zamyrabyrd · April 27, 2007, 10:29:53 AM

Quote from: karlhenning on April 26, 2007, 11:13:42 AM
Do I understand this right? Von Karajan and Carmen?
Include me out

It's a terrific recording (1963) with a dream team: Price, Corelli, Merrill, Freni plus the Vienna Boys' Choir,
Don't listen to Perfect Wagnerite on this one.

ZB

PerfectWagnerite · April 27, 2007, 10:37:09 AM

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on April 27, 2007, 10:29:53 AM
It's a terrific recording (1963) with a dream team: Price, Corelli, Merrill, Freni plus the Vienna Boys' Choir,
Don't listen to Perfect Wagnerite on this one.

ZB

Dream team indeed, except we aren't talking about Aida.

zamyrabyrd · April 27, 2007, 10:56:24 AM

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 27, 2007, 10:37:09 AM
Dream team indeed, except we aren't talking about Aida.

C'est la Carmencita, mon officier.

ZB

Iago · April 27, 2007, 10:32:00 PM

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on April 27, 2007, 10:29:53 AM
It's a terrific recording (1963) with a dream team: Price, Corelli, Merrill, Freni plus the Vienna Boys' Choir,
Don't listen to Perfect Wagnerite on this one.

ZB

I couldn't agree with you more. And the Vienna Philharmonic sounds absolutely ravishingly beautiful on that recording. Doesn't THAT mean anything to anybody?

knight66 · April 28, 2007, 12:33:34 AM

I like that Karajan a great deal, Price sounds sumptuous and Corelli's voice is so open and trumpet-like; he knows how to put passion across. But....it just does not sound French, it has the glossy quality of an international product. Corelli sounds Italianate, not in the least French in his vocal production. The overall sound is overblown. So, I can understand why some cannot get along with it; but it is a set I would not part with.

Mike