Where are you on the political spectrum?

[Florestan]

If you're asking me I don't have any opinion that is much different than the current system.

But ask an anarchist and they'll tell you that everything would be legal by default, so that would be the answer.

I don't think that's exactly what a principled anarchist would tell me. More likely they'd tell me that everything would be legal upon which all members of the community voluntarily agreed to be legal and that those members of the community who disagree can secede to form a community of their own. This, of course, is pure fantasy (one with which I can sympathize, though, as I said in the other thread )

If there starts to be people in the group that want to crimunalize stuff then they could try the anarchomonarchist thing I described earlier to prevent laws from forming. Don't know if it would work, and it's never been tried...

Another pure fantasy, this time one I find absurd.

Yeah, that's basically all it comes down to.

For the art world, there's many talented people that make no money with the art they produce so they have to spend most of their time toiling away at their jobs. Meanwhile, someone tapes a banana to a wall and makes a ton of money doing it. So popularity/knowing the right people is what gives people a better life, more so than actually providing value.

Not that art is my field, but I would like to get good at it, but that's the reality I'd have to deal with regardless. Music is not in much of a better place, either.

The world has always been like that and that's how it will probably be till kingdom come.

[drogulus]

    Nothing isn't just another something. It's new under the sun.

[greg]

I like this image (attached).

Also what is more fun is to just pick and choose what you like instead of taking quizzes.

I'd choose:
Welfare Capitalist
Patriot
Libertarian
Reformist


...although actual quiz results might differ.


Also 8values is better for understanding some ideologies, like Antifa, for example, compared to the Political Compass.

I think they are:
Communist
Globalist
Anarchist
Revolutionary

The big difficulty of putting them on the political compass is liking welfare while hating police... so that's small government and big government at the same time. It's just about aspects so a better tool for understanding. The Political compass would put them in the top and bottom left at the same time, which makes no sense.

[drogulus]

I like this image (attached).

Also what is more fun is to just pick and choose what you like instead of taking quizzes.

     An informed person chooses what they want in a way that supplies content to the category they want to identify with. I might choose a welfare capitalist category because it groups me with people who operate from similar analytic perspectives and find it convenient to share terminology. There's also a shared perspective on the lessons of history, and some resistance to anti-empirical formulations common to the extremes at both ends. One wishes to harvest the best ideas from fellow idea harvesters.

     

     

[Florestan]

There is this question from the other quizz:

"The freer the market, the freer the people".

My answer is YES, A THOUUSAND TIMES YES!.

The only problem is, a true *capitalist* always wants to buy cheap and sell expensive, ergo they always tend to monopoly and cartels. The free market is the mortal enemy of the  *capitalists*, therefore a truly free market has never existed, does not exist and will never exist, because *capitalists* can always count on governemnts, while free market can never.

[Florestan]

This is an exact exposition of my own political-social creed.:

https://creativeconflictwisdom.wordpress.com/2017/12/30/how-to-be-a-conservative-liberal-socialist-by-leszek-kolakowski/

[greg]

There is this question from the other quizz:

"The freer the market, the freer the people".

My answer is YES, A THOUUSAND TIMES YES!.

The only problem is, a true *capitalist* always wants to buy cheap and sell expensive, ergo they always tend to monopoly and cartels. The free market is the mortal enemy of the  *capitalists*, therefore a truly free market has never existed, does not exist and will never exist, because *capitalists* can always count on governemnts, while free market can never.

Yeah but even a free market can be abused. The whole joke with ancaps is about selling child slaves, which is inevitable under a free market completely unregulated by government. So might be free for some, but others become literal slaves. Unless you are talking about something else.

[71 dB]

Kyle Kulinski took the political compass test and made an hour long Youtube video of it explaining every answer he made. The area were I disagree the most with him is the importance of art, especially abstract art. Kyle Kulinski is among the (majority of?) people who just don't see the value of abstract art. Culture overall isn't Kyle's strongest areas and I'm sure he'd struggle to tell Bach and Mahler apart. 

That said, the result is very near where I am politically (I took these tests many years ago and I don't bother taking them again as I don't think my opinions have changed much from those days).

[SimonNZ]

Just another reason why I think that test is broken. Because Kyle and his followers have an uncompromisingness and an extreme outrage at the smallest hint of disagreement which I would call "authoritarian".

[JBS]

Just another reason why I think that test is broken. Because Kyle and his followers have an uncompromisingness and an extreme outrage at the smallest hint of disagreement which I would call "authoritarian".

From the libertarian perspective, progressivism is inherently authoritarian. They want to use the power of the state to actively benefit some, and actively hurt others.  They are in fact  just as authoritarian as Trump. The difference is only in whom they want to use the power of the state to help, and whom to benefit.  And their program depends on a technocratic/bureaucratic elite imposing its decisions about what is good and what is bad on the rest of us.

But hatred of disagreement and refusal to compromise is not necessarily a sign of authoritarianism, as an excursion to almost any  libertarian forum will prove.

ETA If I remember correctly (been quite some time since I last did that, that test seems to equate authoritarianism with social conservatism and libertarianism with social liberalism. That is true in some things but not in others.  You can think gay marriage is not good but also believe other people have the right to live as they want.  That's libertarian. You can think gay marriage is good but also think other people must accept it as good, by force of law if necessary. That's authoritarian .

[SimonNZ]

Well, I don't share your fear of big government or that its necessarily authoritarian or that they want to "actively hurt others".

But wrt the second bit I'm reminded of those circular graphs that show the far left merging into the far right - which is not illustrated by the graph on this thread.

[greg]

But wrt the second bit I'm reminded of those circular graphs that show the far left merging into the far right - which is not illustrated by the graph on this thread.

Horseshoe theory?

Some elements I can see that being the case... I've heard far left people suggest certain things concerning social issues that are exactly what the far right are calling for (or were implemented in the past)... just for opposite reasons. But other things don't quite connect that way.

(throwing out a mention of Jreg's youtube channel, which is a parody of all of this stuff)

The way I perceive political stances is that it all amounts to charges and coins... coins representing a binary choice and charges representing how much one cares. It's like how love and hatred are the same coin, just different sides. The true "opposite" of love and hate is indifference/apathy- meaning that the coin isn't even charged.

Why I say that is that the biggest conflict comes from the opposites- the diagonal quadrants have not one, but two huge philosophical differences, so a charged coin on that could be destructive. Much less so than neighboring quadrants, for example a right libertarian and a right authoritarian might have some disagreements but less likely to create conflict.

[JBS]

Well, I don't share your fear of big government or that its necessarily authoritarian or that they want to "actively hurt others".

But wrt the second bit I'm reminded of those circular graphs that show the far left merging into the far right - which is not illustrated by the graph on this thread.

When I first started exploring libertarianism, a friend (at that time) said libertarians were so far to the right that they were really on the left.

But that was before he converted to Catholicism, ended up whole hog RadTrad Catholic (the type who think Francis is a heretic and antipope), and then descended further, into full alt right mode. That's when I dropped him. He kept enough sense to realize Nazis are a bad thing, but not much else...

[greg]

When I first started exploring libertarianism, a friend (at that time) said libertarians were so far to the right that they were really on the left.

But that was before he converted to Catholicism, ended up whole hog RadTrad Catholic (the type who think Francis is a heretic and antipope), and then descended further, into full alt right mode. That's when I dropped him. He kept enough sense to realize Nazis are a bad thing, but not much else...

Here's a quick reference:



As you can see, lib right is the most appealing of the four  ...

[Florestan]

But hatred of disagreement and refusal to compromise is not necessarily a sign of authoritarianism, as an excursion to almost any  libertarian forum will prove.

Excuse me? Hatred of disagreement and refusal to compromise is the surest indicator of how somebody would behave if they had power, namely in an authoritarian way.