lowest and highest-pitched instruments in the orchestra

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Assuming there is no organ or piano, what are the highest and lowest-pitched instruments in the orchestra? Can the contrabasoon play lower than the double bass? The tuba? Can a violin produce a higher-pitched note than a piccolo?

[Bonehelm]

Lowest is tuba while piccolo is highest.

[Symphonien]

Assuming there is no organ or piano, what are the highest and lowest-pitched instruments in the orchestra?

Generally speaking, they are the piccolo (highest note is the highest C on the piano, although it requires a skilled player to comfortably play the notes in the top half or so of the highest octave) and the contrabassoon (which can comfortably reach the lowest Bb on the piano, and some instruments with a low A extension can even reach the lowest note on the piano. This makes the Bb impossible to play though, and while low A's can be found for bassoon in plenty of late-romantic music, the contrabassoon's low A an octave lower is very rarely written).

However, do bear in mind the following:

Can a violin produce a higher-pitched note than a piccolo?

With harmonics, it is possible for a violin to reach the highest C on the piano and even higher but these notes can only be produced somewhat reliably by the most advanced players and would require an incredible amount of effort to produce above C or so. I definitely know that the original cadenza for Ligeti's Violin Concerto (written in collaboration with the work's dedicatee Saschko Gawriloff) reaches a high E above the highest note of the piano and there are probably some contemporary pieces that go even higher. However, these ridiculously high notes are definitely not in the "standard range" and you will not find much music at all that requires a violinist to play this high, except in some contemporary pieces. Also, you would never find anything this high being written for an entire violin section in the orchestra, because it would be too difficult to get a stable sound from that many players.

Can the contrabassoon play lower than the double bass? The tuba?

Yes, the contrabassoon can reach the lowest Bb on the piano, whereas the double bass can only go down to a low E, or with a C extension a low C. The tuba's lowest "standard range" note is a low E, but some tubas are able to go down even further to as low as the lowest Bb on the piano and maybe even further. I'm fairly sure though that only a contrabass tuba can go down this low, and any lower notes will be ugly unstable pedal tones.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Thanks for the explanation. The Bosendorfers with the extended bass will still beat them all. 

[m_gigena]

Also, you would never find anything this high being written for an entire violin section in the orchestra, because it would be too difficult to get a stable sound from that many players.

In some works, as in Aida, the score asks for only two or four violinists in the harmonics part; but I don't remember how high they go, and I can't find my score.

[(poco) Sforzando]

In some works, as in Aida, the score asks for only two or four violinists in the harmonics part; but I don't remember how high they go, and I can't find my score.

If you're thinking of the ending scene, he writes harmonics no higher than fundamental Gb right above the staff, sounding two octaves higher.

[m_gigena]

If you're thinking of the ending scene, he writes harmonics no higher than fundamental Gb right above the staff, sounding two octaves higher.

That must be.

[jochanaan]

All right, time for a monkey wrench in this discussion. The ranges of instruments are actually pretty flexible.  Strings can be retuned; brass players can use the seldom-used 1st (fundamental) harmonic/overtone which is usually not considered part of the normal range; and other factors may be involved.  The upper ranges, especially, are theoretically unlimited; in practice they are limited only by the players' strength and/or skill.

Strings: I've heard many five-stringed basses on which the lowest string is tuned to a low B or even a low A (the lowest note on the piano).  The upper ranges are not hard to produce--any competent violinist can go well above the piano's highest C with no unusual effort--but they are hard to control.  Imagine a violin section trying to play in tune at those Himalayan heights!

Woodwinds: The low ends of woodwind ranges are pretty well fixed by physical laws; you can't go lower than to play with all holes covered.  (I have seen bassoonists put a roll of paper or plastic in the end of their horns to play a low A, but then they lose their low Bb.)  But the upper range is limited only by the pressure a player's lungs and lips can put on the reed or hole.  On the oboe I can play up to a high G four lines above the staff comfortably, and if I really stretch I can hit the A above; while on the flute I can play the D in the piano's last octave, and I've heard flutists hit the F or even G above.  Jazz flutists, notably Paul Horn, regularly play in this altissimo range.

Brass:  Using the fundamental harmonic adds an additional octave to the low ranges.  In Varèse's Arcana there's a sustained low G (below the piano's lowest A) for tuba toward the end, making the tuba the lowest instrument in the orchestra--at least at that moment.  Again, the tone is not hard to make, but hard to control.  And again, the only limit to the upper ranges is the pressure a great player can put on his/her lips.  As usual, jazz players have explored the upper limits much more than orchestral players; some of today's jazz trumpeters leave Maynard Ferguson far below.

So the only orchestral instruments whose ranges are really fixed are mallet percussion such as the glockenspiel and xylophone--and individual instruments' range may vary.

[m_gigena]

How low is this one?

One of only two or three full length 64' stops ... and here's what it sounds like, from the Grand Organ at Sydney Town Hall, Australia.

[mp3=200,20,0,center]

http://www.sydneyorgan.com/STH64.mp3[/mp3]

A 64' is an *expensive draught* but does contribute to the ensemble in a suitable acoustic. Having heard that instrument in person I observe that upper octaves really *charge* the instrument but the lowest octave seems to fizzle out. Which leads me to think about the low air pressure and quantity of wind it is voiced on - 3-1/2" AFAIK. It stands to reason if one is paying for 8-16 hertz frequencies(64' - 32') then one should have higher pressure and greater wind quantity for the desired effect. There is lots of 32' magnificence on that instrument - why only let the 64' sound like the passing of flatulence from an elephant?

http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/3047-can-you-really-hear.html

http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/4811-two-64-footers-one.html

[jochanaan]

How low is this one?...

If it were written, it would be two octaves lower than the lowest C on a standard piano, an octave lower than the Bösendorfer concert grand's lowest note.

What I find unusual about this particular rank is that it's a trombone stop--a reed stop, rather than a pipe.  I've heard 32' organ pipes live, or maybe they were 16' closed pipes that only sounded like 32', but I've never heard a 64' one!  More felt than heard.  I have seen organs with trumpet/trombone pipes that point directly at the audience; huge sounds from those reeds!

[MishaK]

Thanks for the explanation. The Bosendorfers with the extended bass will still beat them all. 

Oh, I've played on a few of those! Man, what a sound! what colors. I'd love to have one.

[jochanaan]

Oh, I've played on a few of those! Man, what a sound! what colors. I'd love to have one.

What are they, over $200K now?  But yeah, I've played a Bösendorfer concert grand in music stores a few times.  Once I played La cathédrale engloutie using the lowest C at the climax.

[greg]

Strings can be retuned;   

at the end of some of Penderecki's works, like Fluorescences, he has the bass section tune down their basses as low as possible (in a cluster!) I really wonder how far they can go..... maybe it's about the same range as the electric guitar, which can go down to a rumble when you hit the low E string and put the whammy bar down to what they call "slack".

[MishaK]

What are they, over $200K now?  But yeah, I've played a Bösendorfer concert grand in music stores a few times.  Once I played La cathédrale engloutie using the lowest C at the climax.

That's funny. Precisely one of the works that I played on one of those.

[jochanaan]

That's funny. Precisely one of the works that I played on one of those.

It lends itself well to the expanded range, n'est-ce pas?

at the end of some of Penderecki's works, like Fluorescences, he has the bass section tune down their basses as low as possible (in a cluster!) I really wonder how far they can go..... maybe it's about the same range as the electric guitar, which can go down to a rumble when you hit the low E string and put the whammy bar down to what they call "slack".

My guess is that the limit is practical, not theoretical.  Perhaps some of the bass players here can enlighten us...?

[mikkeljs]

I think the Tubaphone goes lower than contrabassoon, and it´s sound doesn´t become "crunchy" down there, it produces very clear tones!

[M forever]

Yes, the contrabassoon can reach the lowest Bb on the piano, whereas the double bass can only go down to a low E, or with a C extension a low C.

On a 5-string bass, the 5th string is typically tuned to B, but it can of course be tuned down to Bflat or A or Aflat. The low A actually occurs in Berg's Drei Orchesterstücke, a low B in Also sprach Zarathustra. But apart from these and a few other examples, notes below C are fairly rare.

[Symphonien]

On a 5-string bass, the 5th string is typically tuned to B, but it can of course be tuned down to Bflat or A or Aflat. The low A actually occurs in Berg's Drei Orchesterstücke, a low B in Also sprach Zarathustra. But apart from these and a few other examples, notes below C are fairly rare.

Yes, you are right. I completely forgot about the 5-stringed bass when I wrote that!

And very interesting to note that the Berg 3 Pieces go down to a low A; I did not know that. Do you know any other examples of scordatura on the lowest string for the 5-stringed bass? I'm sure there are plenty of contemporary pieces like the Penderecki Greg mentioned that will go extremely low... but this would seem to be more of an effect than a practical clear-pitched note.

[paul]

On a 5-string bass, the 5th string is typically tuned to B, but it can of course be tuned down to Bflat or A or Aflat. The low A actually occurs in Berg's Drei Orchesterstücke, a low B in Also sprach Zarathustra. But apart from these and a few other examples, notes below C are fairly rare.

M, where in the Berg does the low A occur?

[(poco) Sforzando]

M, where in the Berg does the low A occur?

I was about to say, "three ledger lines below the staff," but I'll have to wait until I get home tonight to check my score. The low B (in German nomenclature H), however, definitely occurs in Wozzeck, Act Three Scene Two. This is the scene where Wozzeck murders Marie and Berg calls it an "Invention on a Note," which in this case is - B.