Moving further into opera.

[Sarastro]

which are the roles that callas and those others generally sing.

According to Callas' official discography, she sang more of Verdi and Puccini than Bellini, Donizetti, and Rossini together. Add some verists, too. Sutherland also did Haendel.

Therefore I'm sure Harry will find "his" music soon.

[Tsaraslondon]

The later video clip you posted is not valid anymore, so I could not listen to that.

I rather like Anna Moffo's voice, large and big, but not ugly and full of drama.

But here, I think, is the crux of your problem with opera. By the time we get to the beginning of the nineteenth century, composers expected voices to be "full of drama". Indeed, Giuditta Pasa, who had many operas written specifically for her, by Bellini and Donizetti among others, was, according to contemporary criticism, not a perfect vocalist. She moved her audiences to tears, though, with her sheer musicality and commitment to the drama. Parallels here with Callas, whose Norma, a role written for Pasta, was probably her greatest role. La Traviata is not just a series of nice tunes, to be sung prettily. It is a great tragedy, whose heroine has to portray a wide variety of emotions through her voice. Personally, I don't find the Moffo version that satisfactory, because, though it's nicely sung, she rather skates over the deeper emotions of the role. More heartrending by far are those performances by Callas, Cotrubas and Scotto, but, as all these singers have voices "full of drama", I doubt you will respond to them.

Maybe, for the time being, you should stick with Mozart and the lighter Rossini, which you seem to be responding to quite well at the moment.

[Harry]

. Personally, I don't find the Moffo version that satisfactory, because, though it's nicely sung, she rather skates over the deeper emotions of the role.

Maybe, for the time being, you should stick with Mozart and the lighter Rossini, which you seem to be responding to quite well at the moment.

Maybe that is the reason why I like the voice of Anna Moffo. That voice has drama which I can stomach.
Mozart and Rossini, yes off course, but sometimes when I dip into other operas, I find melodies that I like, and singers that appeal to me.
But I tiptoe of course.
I think you are right, I will go slow.

[Mozart]

La Traviata is not just a series of nice tunes, to be sung prettily. It is a great tragedy, whose heroine has to portray a wide variety of emotions through her voice.

And Anna Moffo portrays those emotions through her voice as well as , or even better than Callas which a nicer voice and face. Plus Anna Moffo is a much much muchhh better actress.

Personally, I don't find the Moffo version that satisfactory, because, though it's nicely sung, she rather skates over the deeper emotions of the role.

And she skates too? That tops it!

[Harry]

And Anna Moffo portrays those emotions through her voice as well as , or even better than Callas which a nicer voice and face. Plus Anna Moffo is a much much muchhh better actress.
And she skates too? That tops it!

[springrite]

Anna Moffo, a voice that is not as powerful as it seems on some recordings, but solid, and does not screech or wobble, AND a beautiful face and body to go with that. I know that satisfies ALL of Harry's requirements!

[Harry]

Anna Moffo, a voice that is not as powerful as it seems on some recordings, but solid, and does not screech or wobble, AND a beautiful face and body to go with that. I know that satisfies ALL of Harry's requirements!

LOL
How eloquent you have said that Paul!

[Tsaraslondon]

And Anna Moffo portrays those emotions through her voice as well as , or even better than Callas which a nicer voice and face. Plus Anna Moffo is a much much muchhh better actress.
And she skates too? That tops it!

I actually like Anna Moffo and have enjoyed many of her performances on records, but I do feel that she sometimes fails to really get to grips with a character. However I recommend wholeheartedly her "Luisa Miller", for instance - one of the best in the catalogue. As for her Violetta, I find my views concur with those of London Green in "The Mertopolitan Opera Guide to Recorded Opera.

"E strano" is comfortably thoughtful and "Sempre libera" charming; what is missing is a real conflict of feelings in the former and a fever in the latter. She sings the Act II duet with Germont with tender intimacy, but she appears at time to be reflecting nostalgically on events rather than experienceing the pain directly. Act III is also well sung: an informed, competent, and sometimes touching portrayal.

Might I ask how you come to the conclusion that Moffo was "a much much muchhh better actress"? How many times did you see Moffo and Callas on stage?

[Sarastro]

Maybe, for the time being, you should stick with Mozart and the lighter Rossini, which you seem to be responding to quite well at the moment.

I always thought that Donna Anna and Donna Elvira are "full of drama." And "Don Giovanni" is a comic tragedy. I would say that except for comic operas, Mozart produced serious ones: Idomeneo, La Clemenza di Tito, Mitridate, rè di Ponto and couple other less known operas. Rossini also tried to make drama by all means of artistic expressions he had by the time he was composing. Coloratura's/passages/trills and stretta's/cabaletta's in his case were entitled to voice human feelings (a great set of dramatic operas! Otello, Elisabetta, Sigismondo, Armida, Tancredi, Torvaldo e Dorliska, Mosè in Egitto, Semiramide, to name but few). I have read that Rossini humself wanted his operas to be performed by huge, penetrating voices.
We should not forget that opera was developing during past centuries; composers applied the ways of creating music that had existed before and also sought new ones, made reforms (e.g. Gluck). And the main goal was to express drama. The very first opera "Orfeo" by Monteverdi is also a drama.

Opera was derived from theater, and there were tragedy and comedy. Through the time opera was inproving to become more and more dramatically convictive. If Haendel had heard Callas he could probably have been so delighted that would have written a few operas specially for her. Composers of baroque were limited with little orchestras and castrati voices, but tried to do their best with what they had. No one knows what Vivaldi would have created, having all modern "equipment," such as dramatic sopranos, baritones, Wagner-size orchestras. But I am sure they all wanted to create a worthy drama (or comedy, sometimes).
So drama is the moving force of opera.

However, if noise, nicely doodling around is needed, I can suggest Rachmaninov's vocalises, which, by the way, are beautifully sung by Anna Moffo.

Tsaraslondon, you picked a precise word - "skates" and that is the feature I like about Moffo. She is smoothly skating, almost levitating. And she has her individual style, that can be distinguished from many other singers. I'm not very much in love with her, two or three Violetta's, Mimi, Gilda, Liu left me untouched, but Lucia, Musetta, Iphigénie are wonderful.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Certainly, there are no "bad" operas ...

Sure there must be some ...

[Haffner]

Sure there must be some ...

"Robert", anyone? Didn't think so.

[bassio]

May I express my support for Harry for his daring to venture into this field. I also want to say that I like all suggestions here. Thanks to all. I also wonder why Harry wasn't into opera only until recently (considering he is "western" after all)?

This is my story:
I, like Harry, still do not warm to opera, and "classical western singing and chorals" in general. I have a relative of mine who is preparing to become a tenor and I still do not "like" opera.

However, I blame my eastern origin in this. The problem with me (I guess) is with the whole matter of performance and manner of singing (singers timbres notwithstanding) in opera. The problem gets worse when I get these "dark-timbered" singers.. probably championing later opera works, mostly in post-Baroque full scale operas.

Therefore, I am until now still avoiding complete operas, but began listening to other vocal works (madrigals, cantatas, lieder), mainly starting from the Baroque, since they can be mostly viewed as more intimate "chamber works" than opera oeuvres, which, unfortunately demands from the performers to make the last row in the theater listen as good as the first or they won't sell (which adds what I think is "theatricality" in emotion which I cannot stand) and brings about performers who open their mouths as wide as they can in cave-like fashions to get their voice ringing to the end of the hall - without any regard or thought how "unnatural" this affair sounds like [natural meaning in a 'human-beingly', 'every-day' kind of way].

So it is something inherently cultural in the end I guess. I of course appreciate westerners who like it, where opera acts as part of their heritage.. who knows maybe someday I'll get used to it.  But, for now I can't listen to long-winded elaborate melodies of a 3hour opera full of what I call "theatricality" and, to quote Mozart in Amadeus "fat sopranos screeching".. and leave the most basic, direct and crude emotion found in a 15 minute "Dawr" of Egyptian classical vocal music which may not be less in complexity, virtuosity and of course in emotional content.

I finished my rant.. I want to say I like all the suggestions, keep 'em coming. 

Certainly, there are no "bad" operas ...

I hope so. 

[bhodges]

Therefore, I am until now still avoiding complete operas, but began listening to other vocal works (madrigals, cantatas, lieder), mainly starting from the Baroque, since they can be mostly viewed as more intimate "chamber works" than opera oeuvres...

I think this is a great idea.  There is a ton of vocal music out there that is non-operatic.  (And further, some opera lovers never venture into those areas.)

Harry said he's not much into voices, and I personally know people like that, too.  (As well as friends who don't like the sound of particular instruments, e.g., saxophone, harpsichord, organ, etc.)  Voices are such a personal thing.  I don't have time to go on at the moment, but it's difficult to quantify why some are appealing and others aren't--and to different listeners.  My favorite "Exhibit A" is Bob Dylan, whom I don't care for, but I know quite a few who adore him.

To some I'd suggest: try some "lighter" voices and see if they are more appealing, like Anne-Sofie von Otter, or Natalie Dessay, and avoid the Wagnerian heft for awhile.  There are many, many different types of singers, and (just to cite another example) the explosion of Baroque opera performance has opened up a whole new universe of them.

--Bruce

[Mozart]

Buy this one Harry, you won't regret it.




http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/tPnIEFc9QZk
Im in love with the blonde

[Harry]

Delightful Elias, its on my list. I enjoyed this clip enormously, and you are right the blonde is yummy, but the dark haired lady is not bad either.

[Mozart]

Delightful Elias, its on my list. I enjoyed this clip enormously, and you are right the blonde is yummy, but the dark haired lady is not bad either.

Well feel free to add her to your list as well


(I hope you've seen don giovanni by now.)

[Harry]

Well feel free to add her to your list as well


(I hope you've seen don giovanni by now.)

I first collect and then go on the daunting task of seeing and listening to them Elias.

[zamyrabyrd]

Hi Harry,

I've been really busy but decided to drop in just to see what's going on.
I found that familiarity with style to be a big help in appreciating opera. Maybe this kind of musical accessibility is the reason Romantic-style operas are the ones churned out over and over again for the general public. They are closer to the current musical language of popular music.
For me, moving further into opera meant delving into text as well as some history and background. Individual timbre became less important than what the singers were actually saying.
Conversely, I began to appreciate voices better through the act of listening.

ZB

[marvinbrown]

Hi Harry,

I've been really busy but decided to drop in just to see what's going on.
I found that familiarity with style to be a big help in appreciating opera. Maybe this kind of musical accessibility is the reason Romantic-style operas are the ones churned out over and over again for the general public. They are closer to the current musical language of popular music.
For me, moving further into opera meant delving into text as well as some history and background. Individual timbre became less important than what the singers were actually saying.
Conversely, I began to appreciate voices better through the act of listening.

ZB

  Very well said ZB!  Delving into the text is crucial to getting the most out of opera- its dramatic effect can not be fully realized unless the listener becomes intimately familiar with the plot, the music and the visual spectacle of it all.  I believe deeply in Wagner's "TOTAL ARTWORK" concept.

  Happy Listening
  marvin

[Haffner]

I believe deeply in Wagner's "TOTAL ARTWORK" concept.

  Happy Listening
  marvin

I'm completely with ya on this, Marvin (not that anyone could guess, right? laughing)