"Dumb and Dumber"- Are Americans hostile to knowledge?

[MishaK]

Oh! And look who initiated the thread!  All is now clear 

Can't believe we all missed that.

[ChamberNut]

"Hostile" is such a peculiar word to use in the header question.

Oh! And look who initiated the thread!  All is now clear 

Crystal   

[Joe Barron]

An addendum to my earlier post

Here is the official version of the highway story, fresh from my editor:

Once upon a time, my husband was tending bar at what was then a Holiday Inn in East Stroudsburg [Pennsylvania]. It wasn't far from Route 80 and Route 611, so there were a lot of truckers among the clientele. Two gentlemen walked in to the bar, clearly truck drivers, with the stereotypical facial hair, CAT ball caps, one had a pack of cigarettes rolled in the sleeve of his T-shirt.

Jim automatically reached for the beer tap and two glasses, but one ordered a perfect Rob Roy, the other ordered a martini and both resumed their discussion of which conductor recorded the better version of Brahms' Fourth Symphony.

[Cato]

As a teacher of various subjects through nearly 4 decades, and as somebody whose income - because of benighted allegiance to religious education - has often placed me in contact with the illiterati, allow me to comment.

America has always had its share of morons, but consider that there is no monopoly on moronic behavior: every continent on the planet suffers from it.

America has always admired the person of tangible accomplishment: the Wright Brothers might not have written PhD theses on aeronautics for a university, but they built an airplane that worked!  Which would you prefer?

On the other hand:

Read the Lincoln-Douglas debates, which were spoken in front of Illinois bumpkins who could not have had more than an 8th grade education, if that.

Note the correctness and depth of their grammar, the rather high vocabulary, and the style, which has a certain music in it.

Note that these were REAL debates, where someone might argue his points for 20-30 minutes straight, and then one would hear the rebuttal for an equal amount of time.  Lincoln and Douglas expected their "bumpkin" audience to pay attention to two men speaking straight for an hour. 

No camerawork or whispering commentators to make things more interesting!

Has there been a deterioration?  The deterioration - if it exists - would seem to be primarily at the top, not at the bottom, which would seem to have been stable and waiting for a challenge to raise it up.  The people at the top have lowered themselves rather than expecting the bottom to push themselves upward, and more and more make excuses for the bottom for staying there.

"If it exists"...highly debatable!

[drogulus]

"Hostile" is such a peculiar word to use in the header question.

Oh! And look who initiated the thread!  All is now clear 

    It's meant to be an indictment, I guess. Still, there's something to it. By European standards this country leaves people to fend for themselves to a remarkable degree, for good or ill. Part of the problem is local/state control of education, which leaves those states which are both poor and culturally suspicious of the educated to set as low a standard as they can get away with, while the richer states generally take the high road. The pattern goes all the way back to colonial days, and the best thing I ever read on the subject is The Cousins' Wars by Kevin Phillips.

[MishaK]

America has always admired the person of tangible accomplishment: the Wright Brothers might not have written PhD theses on aeronautics for a university, but they built an airplane that worked!  Which would you prefer?

But that's part of the myth of the Wrights as ordinary country folk. The Wrights weren't just going on gut instincts and hunches. They spent a lot of time painstakingly researching the effectiveness of different wing profiles on small models attached to a bicycle before they went ahead and built the first Flyer. That is empricism in action. Also, remember that the field of aeronautics didn't exist at universities at that time.

[drogulus]

   

But that's part of the myth of the Wrights as ordinary country folk.

     It's part of the myth about ordinary country folk that they couldn't produce the Wright brothers, or Thomas Edison, or Henry Ford. So when it happens, the intellectuals decide capitalism isn't such a good thing. Nothing can be really good that doesn't require an expert with a degree to supervise it.

[MishaK]

     It's part of the myth about ordinary country folk that they couldn't produce the Wright brothers, or Thomas Edison, or Henry Ford. So when it happens, the intellectuals decide capitalism isn't such a good thing. Nothing can be really good that doesn't require an expert with a degree to supervise it.

Both myths are of course nonsense.

[greg]

Oh, don't mistake my point for arguing anything about "inherent" cultural deficiencies. None of this is fixed. At the beginning of the Cold War, the US made a considerable push in improving public education, as it was perceived to be falling behind the Soviets. But as the Soviet threat subsided, so did support for public education. As to your stats. I'd like to see them. I don't know that the US was ever number one in terms of general eduction, but am willing to be proven wrong. As to scientific production, that's easy when you keep importing talent from outside.

You know what, I've actually heard about this before.
I actually feel smart. 
(and it might've been a video in school)

[Sarastro]

I had a few similar experiences.
All of the above are true.

I had exactly the same experience with Russia instead of Germany, apparently.

But I loved the question about triangle. And, damn, the girl is right, it has no sides, because it is a triangle.

However, I think the fault is not theirs. If school or college (my evidence!) teachers say that Arabic numbers (1,2,3, etc.) are American and USA won the WWII...then students believe instructors and do not verify the information. They can't even imagine it's not true. They are misled, by the American government? Easier for them to keep people unaware of...well, I'd better stop here.

PS: I like the journalist's accent. By the way, how did he form the question about World Wars? "How many World Wars...." and then I didn't catch the ending. Heeelp! If I were one of them, I probably wouldn't be able to name the currency of the UK, I know it only in Russian. Translated, my answer would be "pounds of sterlings," which is similar but not exact.

[Florestan]

Part of the pain of applying to college in the US and undergoing a silly rigmarole of standardized testing is that, by just looking at your high school credentials, a college admissions officer can't tell anything at all about how educated you are. The high schools are too dissimilar. An A in one might be worse than a D in another in the same subject. When it comes to general public education, there is something to be said for the European model of highly educated central government technocrats setting a national curriculum and national standards

Well, in Romania there is a board of government technocrats, a national curriculum, national standards and national standardized tests. But the situation is exactly as you described it in the first part of the above paragraph. And when a government initiative to drop completely the college admission test and to select candidates only by their high-school credentials was announced, a huge scandal broke out. The professors in virtually all prestigious university pointed out that this is going to be a disaster. There are a lot of high-schools where you can get an A just by either simply showing up in classes, or bribing or intimidating (nay, bullying) the teachers. And there are a few high-schools where educational standards are high and it's much more difficult to get an A there absent hard work and discipline. Dropping admission tests is a recipe for getting into college mostly ineducated, undisciplined and intellectually inert freshmen. Finally, the government decided to withdraw the proposal and let each university manage its own admission system.

[drogulus]

    Is Romania in France or Italy? It's one of those, right? Or is it in Europe?

[Ephemerid]

    Is Romania in France or Italy? It's one of those, right? Or is it in Europe?

Its next to Hungry I think.  LOL

[Sergeant Rock]

PS: By the way, how did he form the question about World Wars? "How many World Wars...." and then I didn't catch the ending. Heeelp!

"How many world wars have there been?"


Sarge

[MishaK]

"How many world wars have there been?"


Sarge

Understandbly, some people might have been confused as a result of neocon propaganda and terminology permeating the airwaves these days. According to neocon counting, we are fighting number IV right now.

[Sergeant Rock]

Understandbly, some people might have been confused as a result of neocon propaganda and terminology permeating the airwaves these days. According to neocon counting, we are fighting number IV right now.

I missed III ...or was that the Cold War?

Sarge

[MishaK]

I missed III ...or was that the Cold War?

Yes.

[Ephemerid]

Don't forget Grenada!!!!

[paulb]

well whats also so stupid about the USA  is the fact how over paid are doctors and lawyers, and lately insurance co's are also making too much money.
Should they be wealthy for their 8 yrs of sacrificing studies? Yes.
But when in an economy of falling middle class wealth, their incomes should be adjusted too.
This is a  side issus of how much fraud goes on in the insurance, medical, judicial industry.
Of course each of these 3 industries have taken some hit in the recent crash of Sept 07, but they will quickly recover, they will devise new schemes to find new sources.

Doctors and lawyers whose income rises above $2 million, the above 2 million part should be taxed at a  whopping 75%. Loopholds closed.

This way  big lawyers may not take on cases which they stand to only make 25% income.

[MishaK]

TO IDIOTS, Henning, O Mensch and Chambernut.

Hey Mr. Teacherman. That no be complete grammaturific sentence. What sez u?