Is Bach a Great Composer?

[Don]

This is yet another example of what, in literary circles, Harold Bloom calls "the School of Resentment": i.e., the attitude that somehow, for reasons of "conspiracy" or "brainwashing" or such, the culture of the West as generally understood is a direct affront to one's personal pride. In literary circles this often takes the form of denigrating Shakespeare and Dante in favor of the latest "relevant" black, or female, or gay writers. But we see it everywhere in classical music too, and from a number of posters on this forum - whether they feel the accepted canon has ipso facto slighted Pettersson, or Elgar, or Joachim Raff, or women composers, or Polish masters, or the composer of Messiah. Take your pick, every Resenter has his favorite candidates. And as for the rest of us: in the Resenters' minds all we like sheep have gone astray; whereas in truth it is the Resenters who have turnéd every one to his own way.  

I guess my problem is that I don't understand why these folks can't love the accepted canon/composers along with those other composers and works that they have a strong liking for.  I have a warm feeling for quite a few Russian composers such as Taneyev, Miaskovsky, Scriabin and Weinberg, but that doesn't diminish my love for the accepted Russian masters like Tchaikvosky, Prokofiev and Rachmaninov.  However, members here such as Corkin feel it necessary to elevate their favorites by diminishing the competition.  That's sad.

 

[bhodges]

I guess my problem is that I don't understand why these folks can't love the accepted canon/composers along with those other composers and works that they have a strong liking for.  I have a warm feeling for quite a few Russian composers such as Taneyev, Miaskovsky, Scriabin and Weinberg, but that doesn't diminish my love for the accepted Russian masters like Tchaikvosky, Prokofiev and Rachmaninov.  However, members here such as Corkin feel it necessary to elevate their favorites by diminishing the competition.  That's sad.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.  "Sad" is exactly the right word.

--Bruce

[karlhenning]

Brilliant, Don, thank you.

[Josquin des Prez]

I think Sforzando and Don just won the thread.

[Lady Chatterley]

I guess my problem is that I don't understand why these folks can't love the accepted canon/composers along with those other composers and works that they have a strong liking for.  I have a warm feeling for quite a few Russian composers such as Taneyev, Miaskovsky, Scriabin and Weinberg, but that doesn't diminish my love for the accepted Russian masters like Tchaikvosky, Prokofiev and Rachmaninov.  However, members here such as Corkin feel it necessary to elevate their favorites by diminishing the competition.  That's sad.

 

Rod has ever championed only two composers,the slightest suggestion that there are any other composers of any note flies right over his head.A complete waste of time to try to convert him otherwise.It's a simple matter not to engage him ,unless you share his opinion.

[bassio]

Only two? Who is the other one Rod?

[sorry I am a newbie here] 

[bassio]

I just remembered this quote:
"Händel is the only person I would wish to see before I die, and the only person I would wish to be, were I not Bach."

Corkin's enthusiasm for Handel urged me to open a new thread in the other forum. Waiting for your suggestions.

[quintett op.57]

This is yet another example of what, in literary circles, Harold Bloom calls "the School of Resentment": i.e., the attitude that somehow, for reasons of "conspiracy" or "brainwashing" or such, the culture of the West as generally understood is a direct affront to one's personal pride. In literary circles this often takes the form of denigrating Shakespeare and Dante in favor of the latest "relevant" black, or female, or gay writers. But we see it everywhere in classical music too, and from a number of posters on this forum - whether they feel the accepted canon has ipso facto slighted Pettersson, or Elgar, or Joachim Raff, or women composers, or Polish masters, or the composer of Messiah. Take your pick, every Resenter has his favorite candidates. And as for the rest of us: in the Resenters' minds all we like sheep have gone astray; whereas in truth it is the Resenters who have turnéd every one to his own way. 

I don't think it's resentment that make me feel that the french Wikipedia page about Bach should not include a sentence like "the greatest of all times". It's not an objective information.

It's only one example.
It's of course not an organized conspiracy but many details like this one make some new listeners believe Bach was superior to any other composers before experiencing by themselves.
This said, I imagine everyone has understood I'm not saying some other composers are greater than Bach.

I'm not bothered if someone says that Bach is a God or anything like that. But I don't find it fair to lower the talent of other composers in order to glorify Bach.

[Josquin des Prez]

But I don't find it fair to lower the talent of other composers in order to glorify Bach.

Yes because that's exactly what we're doing.

[Ten thumbs]

Bach is so substantial and important...the Isaac Newton of music.  0:)
>>> http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/meer.html   

Very good, but who is Einstein?

[paulb]

Very good, but who is Einstein?

There are several  *Einstein*'s in music.
Mozart, Schnittke,  Schonberg, Berg, Webern, Carter and Pettersson.

[Josquin des Prez]

There are several  *Einstein*'s in music.
Mozart, Schnittke,  Schonberg, Berg, Webern, Carter and Pettersson.

Can't be, only three of those are Jewish.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Can't be, only three of those are Jewish.

Mozart was Jewish?

[Josquin des Prez]

Mozart was Jewish?

No, Schnittke. Well, at least in part.

[Symphonien]

No, Schnittke. Well, at least in part.

Then who are the other two?

[Josquin des Prez]

Then who are the other two?

Schoenberg and Berg.

[Bunny]

Then who are the other two?

Schoenberg and Berg.

Not Alban Berg, although he is mistakenly believed to be Jewish by many.  Webern was a great admirer of Hitler despite the fact that Hitler disliked his music, and certainly not Jewish.  Elliott Carter isn't Jewish (is he still alive?  He must be close to 100 if he is) and Allan Pettersson also was not Jewish, although he did study with René Leibowitz who was Jewish.  Schnittke was half Jewish, but from everything I have read about  him, he didn't practice any religion.  The only one of that group I know to have actually been Jewish was Schoenberg. 


 

[Josquin des Prez]

Not Alban Berg, although he is mistakenly believed to be Jewish by many.  Webern was a great admirer of Hitler despite the fact that Hitler disliked his music, and certainly not Jewish.  Elliott Carter isn't Jewish (is he still alive?  He must be close to 100 if he is) and Allan Pettersson also was not Jewish, although he did study with René Leibowitz who was Jewish.  Schnittke was half Jewish, but from everything I have read about  him, he didn't practice any religion.  The only one of that group I know to have actually been Jewish was Schoenberg. 

Ok, one Einstein then.

[not edward]

Schnittke was half Jewish, but from everything I have read about  him, he didn't practice any religion.

Not that it's very important, but Schnittke was an atheist who converted to Catholicism in the 1970s. He also had a fascination with various cabalistic trends in religious thought, but I don't know how much they informed his beliefs.

[paulb]

A comment was made about Bach being the Issac Newton of genius in music.
So the question was raised another level to *who is The Einstein in music?*

I was refering to the quality level  of genius not to do with ethnic considerations.
All this time i though Berg was jewish.
I was not aware that Webern *appreciated Hitler* = doubt