Is Bach a Great Composer?

[Ephemerid]

I fail to understand why Bach is considered "mechanical" and "too intellectual." 

I find his music very organic myself, not even remotely mechanical (though as jochanaan does point out, there are some mechanical performances out there).  The counterpoint can be trying at times (I can only take The Art of Fugue in small doses) and I can understand how the strong contrapuntal element can be a potential turn off. 

My first real exposure to classical music as a teenager I think was Beethoven's 6th symphony, but after that, I somehow stumbled onto Bach and it was love at first hearing  (Brandenburgs 1, 2 & 3 and the Orchestral Suites).  Of course, it was a superficial hearing at first (counterpoint? what's that? LOL), but I keep coming back from listening to more Bach and it never ceases to amaze me how rich his music is.  I cannot dance, but listening to Bach makes me want to do just that!

The Cello Suites & the solo Violin Sonatas & Partitas & are probably my favourites (actually the cello suites I would rank as my most favourite classical music of all).  The Goldberg Variations are lovely too. 

[eyeresist]

not even sure.

Of what? I succeeded, what makes you think you can't?

We should start singing "Climb every mountain" at this point (and then invert the fugal subject).

[Ten thumbs]

My favorite Bach pieces are from the English Suites and it would be reasonable to rank him a great composer from these alone. On the other hand, a piece like Fanny Hensel's A major Allegro vivace of 8/12/1846 does more to lift the spirit than anything by Bach. Here we find no complicated polyphony - only a melodic line skillfully built from a limited number of elements, driven by fluid harmony and enlivened by changes in register. What makes this piece so powerful is that force we call genius. Yet Fanny has not yet been awarded the laureate of greatness. 

[karlhenning]

I dunno. Offhand, I suspect that the Third Brandenburg Concerto lifts my spirits more than aught that Fanny wrote . . . .

[Norbeone]

On the other hand, a piece like Fanny Hensel's A major Allegro vivace of 8/12/1846 does more to lift the spirit than anything by Bach.

For you it does, yes. Not for me and not for, I suspect, many others.

[Norbeone]

If you want some spirit-lifting Bach, aside from good Karl's Brandenburg 3 suggestion, I strongly recommend the 2nd and 3rd Sonatas for Violin and Harpsichord. I can't even force myself to not crack a smile when I hear these beauties

[Ephemerid]

As far as Bach pieces that fill me with infectious, irresistable joy these four immediately come to my mind:

Cello Suite No. 6 (prelude)
Cello Suite No. 6 (gavotte)
Cello Suite No. 6 (gigue)
Goldberg Variations (variation 1)
Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 (from start to finish)
Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 (1st movement)
Brandenburg Concerto No. 5 (1st movement)
Orchestral Suite No. 3 (overture)

[(poco) Sforzando]

My favorite Bach pieces are from the English Suites and it would be reasonable to rank him a great composer from these alone. On the other hand, a piece like Fanny Hensel's A major Allegro vivace of 8/12/1846 does more to lift the spirit than anything by Bach. Here we find no complicated polyphony - only a melodic line skillfully built from a limited number of elements, driven by fluid harmony and enlivened by changes in register. What makes this piece so powerful is that force we call genius. Yet Fanny has not yet been awarded the laureate of greatness. 

Why do you feel the need to bring in Fanny when she is not the topic of discussion?

[karlhenning]

Brandenburg Concerto No. 5 (1st movement)

Yes, delightfully ebullient!

[quintett op.57]

The Partitas (BWV 825^830, Op.1), what else?

the violin ones

Of what? I succeeded, what makes you think you can't?

It seems that I was wrong in my understanding of this expression but I meant : not even sure you've come on top of things.

[Don]

Yet Fanny has not yet been awarded the laureate of greatness. 

And likely never will.  There are plenty of obscure composers whose music I love, but I'm not expecting them to be given top status.  They're just personal preferences.

[Josquin des Prez]

the violin ones

The violin partitas (and sonatas) are timeless masterpieces, but the keyboard partitas represent Bach at the culmination of his art, hence, the emphasis.

It seems that I was wrong in my understanding of this expression but I meant : not even sure you've come on top of things.

I don't understand. Why would that be so difficult to believe?

[karlhenning]

. . . but the keyboard partitas represent Bach at the culmination of his art . . . .

Why, particularly? TIA

[ragman1970]

http://www.critique-musicale.com/bachen.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/Defense-Bach%5BReese%5D.htm

What do people think of these?

That a question! Everyone whow has listen to JSB will answer this question with yes.
And the answer "no" means at the end that all composer after, such as Mozart, Beethoven .... Shostakovich, are stupid to study his works.... 

[Josquin des Prez]

Why, particularly? TIA

This set stands at the end of his life work and it's a summary of everything he has ever achieved in the field of baroque secular keyboard music up to that point. It's not by chance that Bach decided to publish this along with his other late masterpieces (Goldberg variations, Organ Mass, Art of Fugue ect.).

[Ten thumbs]

For you it does, yes. Not for me and not for, I suspect, many others.

So have you heard it? Have you played it? I have known it for over ten years.

[Ten thumbs]

Why do you feel the need to bring in Fanny when she is not the topic of discussion?

I was only commenting on the nature of greatness, that being entirely relevant to this discussion.

[Josquin des Prez]

So have you heard it?

I heard it. It's rubbish. Clumsy, sterile and artificial. I have a total of three piano discs by Fanny Mendelssohn plus some leader and a Piano Trio and most of it it's pretty average if not down right amateurish. They sound like student works. 

[(poco) Sforzando]

I heard it. It's rubbish. Clumsy, sterile and artificial. I have a total of three piano discs by Fanny Mendelssohn plus some leader and a Piano Trio and most of it it's pretty average if not down right amateurish. They sound like student works. 

But do you think they're "great"? Please don't hold back.

[Josquin des Prez]

But do you think they're "great"? Please don't hold back.

There are very few composers whom i consider "great". It's not a term i like to throw around a lot.