Barenboim's German interview

[Florestan]

I see Carlos is 65, Florestan...

Ah, well, then it's quite another story. Anyway, living in a country which you despise and with wich you don't feel connected in any way must be a traumatic experience.

[matti]

Florestan, you were a teenager in 1989. Would be most interesting if you could share some thoughts about the Ceausesku era...  Romania before and after, how things have changed.

[(poco) Sforzando]

My birth in Argentina was an accident. Mi grandparents couldn't guess the future, and at that time (beginning of the past century) it was a sort of promise land. Now, is a conglomerate of many feudal kindoms managed by corrupt,stupid or degenerate capos, with a population principally poor, ignorant and incapable of react to the abuse.
I don't feel argentine at all, and in my mind, don't have anything to do with my compatriots.

And yet it's home, just as for many of us America is home, however much we may dislike certain aspects of the culture and the government. Every time I think I might want to pack it all in and move to Switzerland or Brazil, I am forcibly reminded that at base I am and always will be American.

[PSmith08]

O Mensch, PSmith08, M Forever: I too admire your patience, moderation and logic, but do you think they'll ever work with Saul? His ideological fanatism, his bigotted racism and his incapacity (and unwillingness) to see what's beyond the length of his nose disqualify him for any rational discussion. He is a Jewish suprematist by pure birth accident. He could have been as well a devout Nazi, an Arab suicide-bomber or an NKVD thug had he been born in the right place. The problem is this kind of people may seem harmless and pathetic, but, given the right conditions, they can become really dangerous.

That's precisely the problem. You get enough people like Saul in one place at one time, give them the right set of circumstances, and some really nasty stuff usually happens. I keep up the barrage, in this case, in hopes of either making a tiny crack in a fanatical, arrogant, and bigoted facade, or providing some balance and reason to a discussion predicated on unreason and intolerance. My biggest problem, though, is that he is making these fanatical, slightly racist pronouncements from the safety of New York City. He has nothing personally invested in his idiotic rhetoric, and he doesn't have to see the human consequences of his theories put to work. It's easy to call a whole group of people inhuman dogs, but unless you have to look in the eyes of a parent of hungry children and call them an inhuman dog, then you're just a blowhard coward.

[Florestan]

Florestan, you were a teenager in 1989. Would be most interesting if you could share some thoughts about the Ceausesku era...  Romania before and after, how things have changed.

Gladly.

( BTW, the correct speling is Ceausescu.)

Before: hard-line European Communism with some North-Korean flavour (pharaonic buildings, huge "popular" parades for the glorification of the leader, a demented and disgusting cult of personality). Food shortages, electricity, gas, heating and hot water cuts, the omnipresent secret police Securitate hunting dissenters through an extended network of informers, severely limited and conditioned travel abroad, one TV station broadcasting a 2-hour, Ceausescu-gloryfying programme, extremely virulent anti-Western propaganda, completely controlled and planned economy, total censorship of press and books, no private access to internet, mandatory registering the computers and typing machines with the police etc etc etc --- and everybody waiting and praying for all this madness to end. Just the usual state of affairs to be expected in a Communist regime.

After 1989, things began to change. Of course, a ruined economy can't be fixed overnight so the economical situation is still not so good, with an average salary of 300 Euro. Many people, especially jobless middle-aged or retired old-aged have problems surviving, but I'd say, overall, things are much better now, actually one cannot possibly even compare them. As for freedom to travel, to find and receive information, to read and listen to whatever you want, things which for me are essential, it is complete.

So, I firmly believe that Ceausescu's regime, 1965-1989 (and the whole Communist regime, 1947-1989) has been the darkest era in Romanian history, bringing the country in a disastrous state, from which we struggle hard to get out.

[MishaK]

My birth in Argentina was an accident.

Exactly like Barenboim then. An "accident" his parents "rectified" rather quickly by moving to Israel.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Good question from matti, illuminating answer from Florestan. 

[Florestan]

The only thing that was flourishing was culture --- but not because of, but in spite of, the regime. Having at home a library full of great books ---and actually reading them all, or a collection of classical music or jazz or rock LPs was a sign of resistance. The books, especially those considered subversive and which censorship sometimes permitted to be printed sold out in a matter of hours. The LPs were smuggled in from Western countries or from less hard-line Communist ones and traded in the dedicated and thriving black market.

[Iconito]

I see Carlos is 65, Florestan... I think, if he had been able to, he would have emigrated by now. And besides - to emigrate you need money and qualifications, which not everybody has. Countries aren't that welcoming to immigrants.

Sad story, all the same. It looks like the equivalent of someone born in the wrong body.

Nah... It looks more like the equivalent of someone born with a malfunctioning brain. Don't get confused: Carlos rant says much more about his delusional imbecility than what it says about Argentina, which is indeed not the best country in the World and has indeed its number of problems to solve, but is nothing like the crap Carlos says.

Just consider this: "Who cares what that silly guy and mediocre musician says? Remember that he's an argentinian, and nothing an argentinian can said on politics has any importance". Thus Daniel Barenboim is a "silly guy" and a "mediocre musician"... Carlos is so much better than DB: He collects coins (or pictures of coins, for what I know) and rants about his own country in an internet forum...

Carlos is what we use to call a "VIEJO PELOTUDO". Luckily this viejos pelotudos don't do ANYTHING, except for complaining and whining, which is annoying, but mostly harmless.

"I don't feel argentine at all"... Well, Mr. Carlos, the bad news is that you are indeed an Argentinean, not one of the most worthy, but an Argentinean nonetheless. Get over it.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Don't worry, Iconito - I took Carlos' remarks as his opinion and his opinion only. I didn't think I read the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Argentina...

[Iconito]

Don't worry, Iconito - I took Carlos' remarks as his opinion and his opinion only. I didn't think I read the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Argentina...

Oh, of course, of course, but... Well... I guess I wanted to have my own rant, too

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Oh, of course, of course, but... Well... I guess I wanted to have my own rant, too

Ranting is a basic human right.

[M forever]

O Mensch, PSmith08, M Forever: I too admire your patience, moderation and logic, but do you think they'll ever work with Saul?

Of course not. Discussions like these never lead anywhere. But they are good exercise in argumentation. Saul is like one of these machines which which shoot out balls so you can practice tennis or baseball. Except he shoots out compact nonsense, and the aim of the exercise is to serve it right back. And then the next load of nonsense comes flying your way.

O Mensch, PSmith08, M Forever: I too admire your patience, moderation and logic, but do you think they'll ever work with Saul? His ideological fanatism, his bigotted racism and his incapacity (and unwillingness) to see what's beyond the length of his nose disqualify him for any rational discussion. He is a Jewish suprematist by pure birth accident. He could have been as well a devout Nazi, an Arab suicide-bomber or an NKVD thug had he been born in the right place. The problem is this kind of people may seem harmless and pathetic, but, given the right conditions, they can become really dangerous.

Indeed, and it is a point I have often made. That is one other reason why one shouldn't let that kind of nosense go completely unanswered.

[Ephemerid]

Discussions like these never lead anywhere. But they are good exercise in argumentation. Saul is like one of these machines which which shoot out balls so you can practice tennis or baseball. Except he shoots out compact nonsense, and the aim of the exercise is to serve it right back. And then the next load of nonsense comes flying your way.

LOLOLOL  dammit I have just spewed tea on my shirt because of that!   

[PSmith08]

Of course not. Discussions like these never lead anywhere. But they are good exercise in argumentation. Saul is like one of these machines which which shoot out balls so you can practice tennis or baseball. Except he shoots out compact nonsense, and the aim of the exercise is to serve it right back. And then the next load of nonsense comes flying your way.

It's also easy practice. There are some formidable debaters here with plenty of information at the ready, and it is relaxing practice to spar with someone who can't send out loads of information, convincingly arranged into an argument, as he can't be bothered with "the truth" or "facts." Why pick a fight with the heavy hitters when you can have a light diversion after class before lunch?

[Saul]

Saul is like one of these machines which which shoot out balls so you can practice tennis or baseball. Except he shoots out compact nonsense, and the aim of the exercise is to serve it right back. And then the next load of nonsense comes flying your way.

M is that you? ..... Um .. sorry, cant be .. this guy at least looks normal (nice music though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5povNXsb8eI

[Saul]

LOLOLOL  dammit I have just spewed tea on my shirt because of that!   

Send M forever the bill for your cleaners, Im sure he'll be more then glad to pay for it.

[M forever]

It's also easy practice. There are some formidable debaters here with plenty of information at the ready, and it is relaxing practice to spar with someone who can't send out loads of information, convincingly arranged into an argument, as he can't be bothered with "the truth" or "facts." Why pick a fight with the heavy hitters when you can have a light diversion after class before lunch?

Exactly. And it keeps you fit in between real matches. Unfortunately, on this as on many other forums, there is just a small handful of people who are actually fun to play against.

Oh, I see, the Saulinator is loaded with another round of nonsense: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,6138.0.html

[Florestan]

M Forever, PSmith08: you're right on spot. Keep going, then!

[carlos]

Well, you had your fun. Keep laughing. But no more at my cost. I will not support your insults, so I'm leaving the forum