Today's Greatest Symphonies?

[Grazioso]

I love exploring symphonies. Any recommendations for the best contemporary symphonies? (For the sake of discussion, 1970-present.)

[lukeottevanger]

Probably quite a few, but as quasi-symphonies there are some three large movement (fast-slow-fast) works of John Adams which I imagine will stand the test of time pretty well - Harmonium (chorus and orchestra), and particularly Harmonielehre and Naive and Sentimental Music. These works retain enough of the abstract to be easy to consider as pretty much pure music and therefore to hear as essentially symphonic. In the case of something more programmatic like My Father Knew Charles Ives, which in other respects is similar to the pieces mentioned though more intimate in scale, the symphonic stature seems less sure, though it is just as fine a piece.

[lukeottevanger]

Some other contemporary symphonist that spring to mind quickly (my mind is elsewhere this afternoon, though - new piano being delivered any time now!) - Kancheli, Norgard, Maxwell Davies, Tishchenko, Glass if you like that kind of thing....

[not edward]

I agree with Luke about the symphonic nature and stature of these works, which strike me as amongst the best of Adams' oeuvre.

The five post-1970 symphonies that immediately sprung to mind were:

Lutoslawski 3 and 4: In these symphonies Lutoslawski has combined his earlier harsher style with a lyricism and passion that seems to me almost Sibelian in nature.
Henze 7: I've got mixed feeling about much of Henze's output, but I think this is the strongest of his symphonies by far. The composer describes it as a German symphony about matters German, which seems a good description: it's harsh, intense, aggressive, and ultimately tragic.
Carter Symphonia: One of the best of EC's late pieces, with a very powerful central threnody surrounded by more playful outer movements.
Sallinen 8: With much more meat on its bones than the usual post-Sibelian stuff, this emotionally ambivalent, superbly orchestrated single movement is my favourite 21st century symphony so far.

[karlhenning]

Well, to restrict myself to a couple that I've heard live at Symphony Hall:

Elliott Carter, Symphonia "Sum fluxae pretium spei"

Chas Wuorinen, Eighth Symphony, Theologoumena

[(poco) Sforzando]

Probably quite a few, but as quasi-symphonies there are some three large movement (fast-slow-fast) works of John Adams which I imagine will stand the test of time pretty well - Harmonium (chorus and orchestra), and particularly Harmonielehre and Naive and Sentimental Music. These works retain enough of the abstract to be easy to consider as pretty much pure music and therefore to hear as essentially symphonic. In the case of something more programmatic like My Father Knew Charles Ives, which in other respects is similar to the pieces mentioned though more intimate in scale, the symphonic stature seems less sure, though it is just as fine a piece.

It would be interesting to hear how Luke defines a "quasi-symphony," though I would certainly agree that the aforementioned works are symphonies in all but name. But when I heard the New York premiere of "Naive" perhaps 5-6 years ago, there was a discussion session before the concert in which Adams was asked by the moderator if the work could be considered in fact a symphony. To which Adams replied: "Well, I don't know about a Symphony...." - implying that he did not want to associate his work with the sense of Bloated Grandeur that attaches itself to the name of the form. Even Carter hedges his title, using the term Symphonia rather than Symphony, but then again there have been symphonies-in-all-but-name written since La Mer. The question is whether the form can renew itself without carrying the connotations of what Virgil Thomson called the Masterpiece Syndrome, in which (as Thomson saw it) huge, solemn works are listened to in huge concert halls in solemn fashion by audiences who treat these symphonies almost as a substitute for attending church.

Berio, too, has his Sinfonia, a thoroughly original work for eight singers and orchestra in which the central, longest, and best-known movement is a witty send-up of Mahler, showing how bits and pieces of the entire musical literature can attach to and detach from the scherzo of the Resurrection Symphony.

[Lethevich]

I must throw in a good word for Tüür's 2nd (1987), 3rd (1997) and 4th (2004 or thereabouts). The 2nd is prior to him finding his most developed voice in the mid 90s, but it is fascinating despite that. The 4th is essentially a percussion concerto. His style could be simplistically described as "accessable modernism" - it's challenging but not repellingly difficult/serial.

Vasks' second could appeal to Pettersson fans. Another one that is perhaps more obvious is Pärt's symphony no.3 (1971) - rather less self-consciously "radical" in style than his previous two, and therefore more interesting.

[lukeottevanger]

It would be interesting to hear how Luke defines a "quasi-symphony,"

I don't have a set definition at all, I was just trying to find a quick phrase to describe these works. But I think you know what I mean - that these works could have the title Symphony attached to them and we wouldn't argue. But they don't. Perhaps because of the type of sentiment you outline here:

[

....Adams was asked by the moderator if the work could be considered in fact a symphony. To which Adams replied: "Well, I don't know about a Symphony...." - implying that he did not want to associate his work with the sense of Bloated Grandeur that attaches itself to the name of the form.

This raises all sorts of questions about when a symphony is not a symphony, and the power of names (a symphony called 'Composition #79 ceases to be a symphony, but a dog called a cat doesn't cease being a dog!) etc. etc. But I'm not clever enough to deal with them.

In any case, FWIW - a chronology of the symphony, up to 2005.

[Haffner]

Chas Wuorinen, Eighth Symphony, Theologoumena[/b]

It's really cool that the 1st time I checked out that composer, it was that very piece and excellent one! I know I seem to be in the minority here, but I really liked Gorecki's 3rd as well.

[Brian]

My highest recommendations are the Third Symphonies of Gorecki and Glass - but then again, my musical tastes are hopelessly stuck in the romantic era, so if you're looking for something truly "contemporary" in style there are probably other works to seek out first. (So about the Gorecki, Haffner, it's not just you  )

[Mark G. Simon]

But Adams does have a Chamber Symphony in his catalog, and now a Doctor Atomic Symphony, following Hindemith's and Prokofiev's practice of extracting symphonies from stage works.

[Mark G. Simon]

My highest recommendations are the Third Symphonies of Gorecki and Glass - but then again, my musical tastes are hopelessly stuck in the romantic era, so if you're looking for something truly "contemporary" in style there are probably other works to seek out first. (So about the Gorecki, Haffner, it's not just you  )

Gorecki and Glass are certainly contemporary in style.  No composer in any earlier period would have ever come up with these works.

[hornteacher]

Johan de Meij - Symphony 1 (1989).  A programmatic symphony based on the "Lord of the Rings" novels.  First written for wind band but later orchestrated for full orchestra.  Fantastic.

[Symphonien]

Don't forget about Schnittke's symphonies! Also Rautavaara's 7th & 8th and Norgard's 3rd.

[Grazioso]

My highest recommendations are the Third Symphonies of Gorecki and Glass - but then again, my musical tastes are hopelessly stuck in the romantic era, so if you're looking for something truly "contemporary" in style there are probably other works to seek out first. (So about the Gorecki, Haffner, it's not just you  )

No stylistic restrictions, just chronological.

In any case, FWIW - a chronology of the symphony, up to 2005.

Interesting and useful list, but n.b. there's tons missing (though in fairness, the author admits and explains that).

[karlhenning]

Oh, does he explain it?  I missed that.

[vandermolen]

Vasks Symphony 2...great work.

[some guy]

Oh, does he explain it?  I missed that.

Haha! It's true. His explanation, in effect, is "I put in a bunch of obscure people in my specialty and, 'naturally,' left off a bunch of not very obscure people, because too much information isn't helpful."

But that's as may be. Grazioso wants to explore recent symphonies, so here's a few more:

Boris Tishchenko, Symphony no. 7 - 1994.
Roger Reynolds, Symphony [Vertigo] - 1987
                      Symphony [Myths] - 1990
Frank Corcoran, Symphony no. 2 - 1981
                      Symphony no. 3 - 1994
                      Symphony no. 4 - 1996
Ib Norholm, Symphony no. 6 - 1981
                Symphony no. 7 - 1982
                Symphony no. 8 - 1990
                Symphony no. 9 - 1990
Sofia Gubaidulina, 'Stimmen... Verstummen' - 1986
Francis Dhomont, Frankenstein Symphony - 1997

[greg]

I still can't wait till Norgard's 7th is recorded! But I heard the premiere is delayed until the end of next year! 

Penderecki's 7th and 8th symphonies are very fine, more "mature" sounding, too, for his style.
Gorecki's 3rd is of course one of my all-time favorite pieces of music.
Norgard's later symphonies are a bit difficult even for me, although I can say I immediately like the earlier ones, especially the 1st.
Henze's 8th is one that I've developed an obsession over when I heard it the first time a couple of months ago.
Adams' Harmonelehre...... nice to be mentioned, here even though it's not (but like) a symphony. Definitely a masterpiece (my favorite of his).

[Symphonien]

I still can't wait till Norgard's 7th is recorded! But I heard the premiere is delayed until the end of next year! 

Really? Damn... I was hoping for a recording soon - I thought it already had premiered, considering it was finished in 2006! But I just looked it up, and the Danish National Radio Orchestra will be giving the premiere at the opening of the new Radio Concert Hall. This building was supposed to be opened last year, but it has been much delayed due to huge economical and political problems. Apparently, it will now be opened in January 2009.

So looks like there's still plenty of waiting to do...