Handel Suggestions

[knight66]

I used to ask Rod what he liked about Handel, all I got was a whole lot of tripe about what a poor a composer Bach was. When I challenged him on his omission of any Handel information; I was accused of being part of a Mafia here that was supressing him. More tripe.

It is his same old mantra, and he knocks the threads off-course. Handel can be justly and fully celebrated without denegrating any other composer. He was unique and I feel fortunate that I am around at a point when his works are being thoroughly explored.

Another legend here is that no one other than Rod really appreciates Handel; I called him on that as well. But rather like the character in Little Britten; he has to claim he is the only-Handel-lover-in-the-village.

Mike

[The new erato]

I used to ask Rod what he liked about Handel, all I got was a whole lot of tripe about what a poor a composer Bach was. When I challenged him on his omission of any Handel information; I was accused of being part of a Mafia here that was supressing him. More tripe.

It is his same old mantra, and he knocks the threads off-course. Handel can be justly and fully celebrated without denegrating any other composer. He was unique and I feel fortunate that I am around at a point when his works are being thoroughly explored.

Another legend here is that no one other than Rod really appreciates Handel; I called him on that as well. But rather like the character in Little Britten; he has to claim he is the only-Handel-lover-in-the-village.

Mike

That more or less sums it up I guess!

[(poco) Sforzando]

That more or less sums it up I guess!

Certainly does. And I for one am a little skeptical that the "expert" isn't aware of the 1968 recording of Theodora by Somary.

If anyone can find American Record Guide, Jan-Feb 2003, there is a comprehensive discussion of Handel operas and oratorios (other than Messiah) to date. If I feel ambitious later this week, I'll post a summary of what the reviewer considers the top choices.

[quintett op.57]

Opinion =! fact, something you seem to have a problem with. "Old-school" Beethoven is probably the most monumental body of recorded music in the 20th century. If this doesn't demonstrate the extend of your error, nothing will.

The establishment at work once again, i assume, brushing Handel under the carpet while shoving Beethoven on everyones throats.

What about the greater number of Vivaldi's Four Seasons recordings relative to the Opus 6 despite the latter being a much bigger work?  What about Handel's own Water and Fireworks music, also inferior to the Opus 6 concerti? Those too part of the conspiracy?

Handel's Concerti Grossi, written at the height of his creative powers may well be superior to the Brandenburgs but they can hardly be considered more "important". Bach's concertos are much more forward looking and far more influential (particularly to his own sons, who were to revolutionize the genre with their respective careers) then Handel's hopelessly outdated contribution to the form. It shouldn't be surprising then that the Brandenburgs have become more popular when they are more accessible then the archaic Opus 6.

how do you manage to come with such "truths"?
4 seasons, op.6 & the Brandenburg are marvels. You're ranking them without even knowing what "bigger music" means.
Sorry, you're not the only one to do so here but this particular post is so plenty of this pretention to know everything about music that I needed to react.

No one among you know which one is the best and which one is the most influential.

You're all damn ignorant, like me and the rest.

Be humble

Every music has to be listened carefully.
If you've not noticed that even the most accessible composers, including Vivaldi, are much more rewarding when you listen carefully, then you still have a lot to learn. 

Newbies please dont listen to those who try to indicate you which composers you have to listen to the most.

[bassio]

how do you manage to come with such "truths"?
4 seasons, op.6 & the Brandenburg are marvels. You're ranking them without even knowing what "bigger music" means.
Sorry, you're not the only one to do so here but this particular post is so plenty of this pretention to know everything about music that I needed to react.

No one among you know which one is the best and which one is the most influential.

You're all damn ignorant, like me and the rest.

Be humble

Every music has to be listened carefully.
If you've not noticed that even the most accessible composers, including Vivaldi, are much more rewarding when you listen carefully, then you still have a lot to learn. 

Newbies please dont listen to those who try to indicate you which composers you have to listen to the most.

Come on quintett, Relax .. Josquin was just expressing his personal opinion, and he is entitled to. He did not dictate on anyone what to listen to. I still did not listen to the op.6 though.

Anyway .. Thanks to everyone. Suggestions were great. Although I guess more won't hurt 


Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I am looking forward for the op.6 concertos .. so will it be Manze .. or do I search for Hogwood?

[Josquin des Prez]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I am looking forward for the op.6 concertos .. so will it be Manze .. or do I search for Hogwood?

Personally, i prefer the Hogwood to either the Pinnock (similar approach but not as good recording quality) or Manze (too frantic), but this is a question of personal taste since all three sets are very well performed.

[FideLeo]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I am looking forward for the op.6 concertos .. so will it be Manze .. or do I search for Hogwood?

For partial recordings, may I suggest Thomas Fey/ Ensemble La Passione (Accent) which contains only 4 concerti (nos. 5, 6, 10, 12) out of the 12.  For complete sets I think Manze is fine.  The Hogwood is actually a bit too even and four-square to these ears.

[Rod Corkin]

Personally, i prefer the Hogwood to either the Pinnock (similar approach but not as good recording quality) or Manze (too frantic), but this is a question of personal taste since all three sets are very well performed.

Hey we are in agreement, how strange it feels. Hogwood's is the one to go for for Handel's Op6. This is as safe a purchase as you'll ever make.

I'm not usually a fan of Hogwood, he's usually square and ponderous as has been mentioned, but not in this case in my opinion, here with Op6 he must have had some kind of revelation for the tempi on the whole are excellently judged.

[bassio]

Forgot to ask:

what are your favorites for:
1- Keyboard suites
2- Organ concertos

[Rod Corkin]

Forgot to ask:

what are your favorites for:
1- Keyboard suites
2- Organ concertos

1 - Spophie Yates 3 volumes on Chandos label. Excellent, apart from a rather tired rendition of the famous Chaconne.
2 - no really outstanding recommendations. I have Ton Koopman's Op4 and Op7 set with the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra. Beautiful sound, though tempos not a quick as they could be in some cases. They have been re-released on the Apex label so very cheap these days.

[Don]

Forgot to ask:

what are your favorites for:
1- Keyboard suites

Verlet/Astree
Remy/CPO
Dantone/Arts
Nicholson/Hyperion
Ross/Erato

The above are on harpsichord.  On piano, Richter/EMI probes the emotional core more than any other performer; however, Gavrilov plays four of the eight suites and he's not close to Richter.

[DavidW]

HWV 007 - Rinaldo (1711) : Hogwood.

HWV 017 - Giulio Cesare (1724) : Rene Jacobs.

HWV 056 - Messiah (1742) : Hogwood.

HWV 319^330, Op.6 - Concerti Grossi (1739) : Pinnock.

HWV 426^433, 8 Great Suites (1720) : Scott Ross.

Why is Op 6 on your list?  That's hardly falls into the realm of great masterpiece.

[DavidW]

Go for the vocal music, the instrumental stuff isn't very exciting.

Bingo.  Agreed.

[FideLeo]

Bingo.  Agreed.

If H's Music for Royal Fireworks isn't very exciting, I don't know what is...

[Rod Corkin]

Why is Op 6 on your list?  That's hardly falls into the realm of great masterpiece.

You must be kidding, Handel's Op6 is the finest collection of baroque concertos there is!! What would you call a 'masterpiece' if Op6 is not?

[DavidW]

You must be kidding, Handel's Op6 is the finest collection of baroque concertos there is!! What would you call a 'masterpiece' if Op6 is not?

My list of baroque concerto masterpiece is-- Bach's Brandenburg Concertos.  Yup that's pretty much it.

Baroque concertos don't register that highly with me.  I think that the greatest contributions baroque composers made were in the area of vocal and solo keyboard.

[Rod Corkin]

My list of baroque concerto masterpiece is-- Bach's Brandenburg Concertos.  Yup that's pretty much it.

Baroque concertos don't register that highly with me.  I think that the greatest contributions baroque composers made were in the area of vocal and solo keyboard.

Well Op6 is a significantly more substantial collection that the Brandenburgs, and I cannot see how you can regard Bach's usual rather tuneless contrapuntal approach to be preferable to Handel's endless melodic invention, but each to his own...  0:)

[bassio]

Well Op6 is a significantly more substantial collection that the Brandenburgs, and I cannot see how you can regard Bach's usual rather tuneless contrapuntal approach to be preferable to Handel's endless melodic invention, but each to his own...  0:)

Writing the words "tuneless" and "Brandenburg concertos" in the same sentence is what makes this stick out in my eyes .. if you know what I mean. 

[The new erato]

Writing the words "tuneless" and "Brandenburg concertos" in the same sentence is what makes this stick out in my eyes .. if you know what I mean. 

It was rather the "Bach", "usual", "tuneless" combination that made me disregard the rest of the post, even if I agree that the op 6 is a very fine set, and that Handel is a master of the endlessly inventive melody.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I cannot see...  0:)

Says it all . . . .