Satan is...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Is that something else I should read?

Might make your wife happy.

[Dr. Dread]

Might make your wife happy.

I don't know. She's the last of the Puritans. 

[Catison]

I think we all know who satan is.

[karlhenning]

This religious back and forth gets mighty old.

This.

[Elgarian]

This religious back and forth gets mighty old.

"Oh no! Not talking fish again!"

[DavidRoss]

Then I guess I should have said the the fundament sin of Satan was lack of submission.

I hope we aren't quibiling about the implications of "abject".  In any case, perfect conformity to the God's will is central to Christian theology, maybe especially to Reform theology.

Consider a couple of questions from the Westminster Larger Catechism ...

Question 24: What is sin?
Answer: Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, any law of God, given as a rule to the reasonable creature.
...

Question 91: What is the duty which God requires of man?
Answer: The duty which God requires of man, is obedience to his revealed will.

Further, consider this quote from the Westminster Confession of Faith ...

CHAPTER XIX
OF THE LAW OF GOD
I. GOD gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him, and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.a

a Gen. 1:26-27; with Gen. 2:17; Rom. 2:14-15; Rom. 10:5; Rom. 5:12, 19; Gal 3:10, 12; Eccl. 7:29; Job 28:28.

What does theology have to do with anything?  I referred to the teachings of Jesus, as reported in the Gospels--simple, direct, and utterly free of scholasticism.  Jesus taught almost no theology, and certainly nothing like the accretions of the church which claims him--which accretions entombed the spirit of that earthy rabbi and made a god of him, mistaking the finger for the moon in spite of his admonition not to!  "Sin" (ἁμαρτία) just means "missing the mark"--in other words, falling short of the target.  The ideas of "duty" and "obedience" of which you speak are also foreign to him.  The yoke Jesus offered (literally, his yoga) is easy and light, not burdensome--freeing, not confining.  "Surrendering to the will of God" is not some kind of onerous enslavement, but rather empowerment, like a surfer surrendering to the wave.

There's a reason Lao Tzu warns the would-be Sage about those who speak without knowing, who are full of learning without understanding. 

[DavidRoss]

That's how Milton's Satan saw it, and persuasively too. But you could also speak of the fish's abject submission to water (until you saw one on the bank, flapping about crying 'at last I am free').

OK, OK, talking fish. Whatever next?

Aye.  Freedom lies in yielding to Tao, not in defying it.  Once you surrender to the current, instead of struggling against it, then you can work in harmony with it.

Confucious is reported to have said that he had seen birds that swim and fish that fly, but he had never seen a dragon until he met Lao Tzu.

[DavidRoss]

This religious back and forth gets mighty old.

Remind me again, please, just who started this thread....

[Fëanor]

What does theology have to do with anything?  I referred to the teachings of Jesus, as reported in the Gospels--simple, direct, and utterly free of scholasticism.  Jesus taught almost no theology, and certainly nothing like the accretions of the church which claims him--which accretions entombed the spirit of that earthy rabbi and made a god of him, mistaking the finger for the moon in spite of his admonition not to!  "Sin" (ἁμαρτία) just means "missing the mark"--in other words, falling short of the target.  The ideas of "duty" and "obedience" of which you speak are also foreign to him.  The yoke Jesus offered (literally, his yoga) is easy and light, not burdensome--freeing, not confining.  "Surrendering to the will of God" is not some kind of onerous enslavement, but rather empowerment, like a surfer surrendering to the wave.

There's a reason Lao Tzu warns the would-be Sage about those who speak without knowing, who are full of learning without understanding. 

You're right enough that Jesus taught little theology.  Others have made up for it since.

What I was talking about above was the perspective of John Milton, a 17th century Puritan.  Of course, I wasn't talking about my personal perspective: you've already heard of that I suspect. 

[Dr. Dread]

Remind me again, please, just who started this thread....

Me. It's a poll.

[Joe_Campbell]

Me. It's a poll.

How disingenious.

Considering the history of these sorts of threads on this board, what'd you think you'd get? A bunch of nice data points?

You just wanted to throw some menthos in the diet pepsi, didn'tcha?

[Dr. Dread]

You just wanted to throw some menthos in the diet pepsi, didn'tcha?

No. Well, maybe one... 

[Joe_Campbell]

You mean two? Or was the other one a scotch mint?

[owlice]

How big a bottle of Diet Pepsi? (For two liters, I'd use seven Mentos. )

[Elgarian]

It's a poll.

Yes, but there's a problem with polls. Have you noticed how, when you go to vote on polling day (rising early, with eager face shining in the morning sun), you arrive at the polling station, make your mark and then ... well, what? You feel something ought to happen. Something out of the ordinary. Something big.

Well, so with this poll. You click your button and then ... what?

I'm starting to imagine the talking fish was a subconsciously projected symbol of my personal angst.

[knight66]

If the poll reaches the wrong decision, we take to the streets until there is a recount and the answer changes.

Off now to buy my water bottle and hat, it is gonna be hot on them there streets.

Mike

[Joe_Campbell]

How big a bottle of Diet Pepsi? (For two liters, I'd use seven Mentos. )

Well, maybe 1 355 mL can.