Villa-Lobos Anyone?

[SonicMan46]

Well, yesterday I ordered the Naxos box of VL's Piano Works w/ Sonia Rubinsky, and was thinking of what genre of his prolific output I've not yet heard or own - well, mainly his Symphonies; now these are usually considered some of his 'lower tier' compositions but opinions seemed to have varied - despite these contrary views, I would like to hear these works - the CPO box is the obvious choice at the moment for a complete set, but I've been intrigued w/ an ongoing Naxos project (below left) - SO, would be curious to hear from those who may have heard performances of two conductors/orchestras - thanks for any thoughts - Dave

P.S. excellent, multiple reviews on the Naxos website HERE.

 

[Mirror Image]

Well, yesterday I ordered the Naxos box of VL's Piano Works w/ Sonia Rubinsky, and was thinking of what genre of his prolific output I've not yet heard or own - well, mainly his Symphonies; now these are usually considered some of his 'lower tier' compositions but opinions seemed to have varied - despite these contrary views, I would like to hear these works - the CPO box is the obvious choice at the moment for a complete set, but I've been intrigued w/ an ongoing Naxos project (below left) - SO, would be curious to hear from those who may have heard performances of two conductors/orchestras - thanks for any thoughts - Dave

P.S. excellent, multiple reviews on the Naxos website HERE.

 

Yikes! Sorry for the late reply, Dave. I personally didn't think much of the first installment of the Karabtchevsky recording. The only advantage that recording has going for it is the Sao Paulo SO who seem to have been slipping away since Neschling's unfortunate departure, but even their playing here isn't as strong as it was during Neschling's tenure. One of the things I don't like about this new recording is the audio quality which sounds, to my ears, quite cavernous. The clarity that is needed to get the textures to be caught by the ear just aren't there in the Karabtchevsky. It's too bad BIS couldn't have engineered and released this recording. Another thing I didn't particularly like are the generally slower tempi employed by Karabtchevsky. I've heard, and own, two other performances of Symphony No. 6, for example, and St. Clair's and Roberto Duarte's easily give brisker, more uptempo performances. I'm sorry but a Celibidache type of mentality does not work in VL's music. I really can't think of any redeeming qualities about this Naxos recording. I'm seriously approaching the next release with caution.

Carl St. Clair's complete set, by contrast, is essential IMHO. Not because it's a complete set, which it's really not 'complete' as Symphony No. 5 is lost but because I feel that the Stuttgart Radio SO are a better orchestra and more committed to the music, which may sound strange, but I've always been impressed with German orchestras. The Sao Paulo SO are a good orchestra, in the right hands, of course, but they simply don't sound convincing with Karabtchevsky. St. Clair offers textural clarity, brisk tempi, spirited performances, and CPO's audio quality is quite fine.

[SonicMan46]

Yikes! Sorry for the late reply, Dave. I personally didn't think much of the first installment of the Karabtchevsky recording. ............ I really can't think of any redeeming qualities about this Naxos recording. I'm seriously approaching the next release with caution.

Carl St. Clair's complete set, by contrast, is essential IMHO........ but because I feel that the Stuttgart Radio SO are a better orchestra and more committed to the music, which may sound strange, but I've always been impressed with German orchestras...........

Hi John - thanks for your detailed and excellent comments on these two contrasting recordings; just the 'highlights' above have convinced me to obtain the CPO box, a company that I really enjoy & have dozens of their recordings - will go on my 'wish list' rather than the Naxos (ongoing, I presume) set!  Dave

[Mirror Image]

Hi John - thanks for your detailed and excellent comments on these two contrasting recordings; just the 'highlights' above have convinced me to obtain the CPO box, a company that I really enjoy & have dozens of their recordings - will go on my 'wish list' rather than the Naxos (ongoing, I presume) set!  Dave

You're welcome, Dave. I'm glad I could help you. VL's music is a passion of mine.

[Karl Henning]

Man, but that eleventh Chôros is huge!

[North Star]

Man, but that eleventh Chôros is huge!

Yes indeed! Have you heard Nos. 1-5 yet? They're a bit shorter, and no less wonderful.

[Karl Henning]

Not yet . . . I decided on no. 11 to get my feet wet, as it were. Certainly looking forward to exploring the rest of this wonderful set!

[Karl Henning]

Yes indeed! Have you heard Nos. 1-5 yet? They're a bit shorter [...]

I little suspected how wry a jest you were offering, Karlo! At ca. 70 minutes, № 11 must easily be the most substantial, and I did not so much get my feet wet, as plunge into the pool at the deep end.

[North Star]

I little suspected how wry a jest you were offering, Karlo! At ca. 70 minutes, № 11 must easily be the most substantial, and I did not so much get my feet wet, as plunge into the pool at the deep end.

Well, plunging right in may work as well as any strategy.
I have still 1½ discs unlistened from the Bachianas discs, I'll probably listen to them today.
Of the Choros, Nos. 6, 8, 9 & 12 are the next most substantial ones, with No. 12 being the longest at 37 minutes. The Bachianas aren't too short in general, but they're suites with varying movements, and the music in general is much more classically (or Bachianally...) oriented.

[Karl Henning]

Funny you say that, because at wild random, I listened last night to my two different versions of the fourth, Tocata, movement of I forget which of them, and I did wonder what was so Bachian about that movement . . . .

Then, too, my ears may be out of skew to his aims, with my recent near-immersion in the USB Bach edition . . . .

[North Star]

Funny you say that, because at wild random, I listened last night to my two different versions of the fourth, Tocata, movement of I forget which of them, and I did wonder what was so Bachian about that movement . . . .

Then, too, my ears may be out of skew to his aims, with my recent near-immersion in the USB Bach edition . . . .

Well, I didn't mean that they are Bachian at all - but, as Wikipedia has quoted the below, they are certainly more influenced (though not all the time) by traditional Western art music. The Préludio (Ponteio) of No. 7 certainly sounds to me that way now.

They represent not so much a fusion between Brazilian folk and popular music on the one hand, and the style of Johann Sebastian Bach on the other, as an attempt freely to adapt a number of Baroque harmonic and contrapuntal procedures to Brazilian music

[Karl Henning]

Yes, that's perfectly fair.  And at any rate, good music, which is what matters more than the ideas around the music 

[North Star]

Yes, that's perfectly fair.  And at any rate, good music, which is what matters more than the ideas around the music 

Absolutely!
Brasileiras Nos. 8 & 9, and Quinteto em forma de Chôros[/i] (for flute, oboe, cor anglais, clarinet & bassoon) are the only ones I haven't heard yet from the set. Next the SQ's, I guess (from Spotify, the Cuarteto Latinoamerico set. I should have bought this two years ago when it was cheap and I had money.  )

[vandermolen]

I was quite wrong about Villa Lobos. I think that Symphony 3 is a fine work. It is moving, especially the slow movement, memorable and exciting. Maybe the last movement is rather densely scored, but I have been delighted to find this symphony. Which symphonies are best? I like no 4 and also have no 12.

[snyprrr]

I was quite wrong about Villa Lobos. I think that Symphony 3 is a fine work. It is moving, especially the slow movement, memorable and exciting. Maybe the last movement is rather densely scored, but I have been delighted to find this symphony. Which symphonies are best? I like no 4 and also have no 12.

Try No.7 on YT. I think you'd like 7.

[vandermolen]

Try No.7 on YT. I think you'd like 7.

Thank you.

What is YT?

[North Star]

Thank you.

What is YT?

Youtube.

[Mirror Image]

In my mind, Villa-Lobos is every bit a major composer as Shostakovich and Bartok. He seems, as so often with Latin American composers in general, to be pushed aside for European composers and I think that's a shame. He's every bit as creative as the European composers. For example, a work like Genesis demonstrates his complete mastery of the orchestra and how he was able to build a work from the ground up with one musical idea to an endless stream of one idea after another. For those unaccustomed to VL's sound-world, this can take one by surprise, but, at his most inspired, it's hard to beat him. He will keep you humming for days on end.

[snyprrr]

I think 'Uripuru'(is that it?) is the single piece that would turn everyone on to HVL.

[Mirror Image]

I think 'Uripuru'(is that it?) is the single piece that would turn everyone on to HVL.

That's a great work! Listen to the Eduardo Mata performance.