Author Topic: Villa-Lobos Anyone?  (Read 50217 times)

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Offline UB

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2010, 05:12:09 AM »
I find his cello works, which includes "Bachianas Nos. 1 and 5," both "Cello Concertos," and "Fantasia for Cello and Orchestra" to be some of his weakest compositions, which is interesting because he played the cello quite well I heard.
I also find his cello concertos and the Fantasia disappointing. I am also not a big fan of his piano concertos while a number of my friends think they are very good. Thank goodness that he wrote so much music that there is something there for everyone.
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Offline Martin Lind

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2010, 06:02:33 AM »
A very interesting thread. I posses Villa Lobos string quartetts ( from Brilliant) and his Bachianas Brasilieras and some other works from Emi ( Batiz).

The string quartetts were my first buy. There was a string quartett I liked but I can't claim to have listened to these works profoundly, most of it appeared to me not memorable.

Then I bought the Bachianas Brasilieras and up to now I am pretty enthusiastic. I can't believe that these should be one of his weaker works as has to be said here ( but I can't judge of course).  I like his 1st ( astonishing that it's so colouful with only celli), even more so his 2nd ( marvelous sound from the saxophone ), the 3rd appeared more difficult but rewardingly so, the 4th is great, the 5th.

My impression of Villa Lobos: Sometimes he appears not very memorable but at his best his music is really refreshing.

The point is of course always that there is really too much good music to listen to, but I think Villa-Lobos is really an interesting composer.

Regards
Martin

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2010, 06:59:27 AM »
I also find his cello concertos and the Fantasia disappointing. I am also not a big fan of his piano concertos while a number of my friends think they are very good. Thank goodness that he wrote so much music that there is something there for everyone.

I, too, am not impressed with his piano concertos, but the 3rd is probably the best of the lot. Yes, Villa-Lobos wrote a lot of music well over 1500 compositions, so yes, there is something for everybody in his large output. Like I have said, I think his ballets, symphonic poems, and the "Choros" are his best works. I also really enjoy Symphony Nos. 3, 4, 6, and 10. His string quartets are also enjoyable as is his piano music.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2010, 07:23:10 AM »
A very interesting thread. I posses Villa Lobos string quartetts ( from Brilliant) and his Bachianas Brasilieras and some other works from Emi ( Batiz).

The string quartetts were my first buy. There was a string quartett I liked but I can't claim to have listened to these works profoundly, most of it appeared to me not memorable.

Then I bought the Bachianas Brasilieras and up to now I am pretty enthusiastic. I can't believe that these should be one of his weaker works as has to be said here ( but I can't judge of course).  I like his 1st ( astonishing that it's so colouful with only celli), even more so his 2nd ( marvelous sound from the saxophone ), the 3rd appeared more difficult but rewardingly so, the 4th is great, the 5th.

My impression of Villa Lobos: Sometimes he appears not very memorable but at his best his music is really refreshing.

The point is of course always that there is really too much good music to listen to, but I think Villa-Lobos is really an interesting composer.

Regards
Martin

You've made some very interesting points, Martin. One of the things you have to remember is that there are good and bad Villa-Lobos performances. The Enrique Batiz set of "Bachianas Brasileiras" aren't that convincing to my ears, especially when better performances with more superior audio exists like John Neschling/Sao Paulo Symphony Orch. on BIS and Kenneth Schemerhorn/Nashville Symphony Orch. on Naxos. The quality and authority of these performances are truly amazing.
 
You have to remember if the performance isn't convincing enough, then it's not going to give full justice to the composer. Enrique Batiz is a good conductor, but he's not a good Villa-Lobos conductor. Batiz is better in Spanish music than he is Latin American music. He doesn't possess the kind of edge that is required to pull of a work by Chavez, Revueltas, Villa-Lobos, or Ginastera.
 
Also that Brilliant Classics box set you own is one of the lowest rated Villa-Lobos box sets available. I forget which string quartet perform in that box, but they pale in comparison with the Latinoamericano Quartet on Dorian. I'm not sure if you want to spend any more money on these works, but this is the box set that I highly recommend:
 

 
You will find that the performances in this set are more authentic and convincing.
 
Have you heard any of his "Choros" or ballets and symphonic poems like "Genesis," "Ruda," or "Uirapuru"? How about any of his symphonies? There's a whole wealth of great music to explore. If you need any recommendations regarding anything Villa-Lobos, then please don't hesitate to ask.
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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2010, 07:38:17 AM »
You will find that the performances in this set are more authentic and convincing.

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2010, 07:42:18 AM »

Also that Brilliant Classics box set you own is one of the lowest rated Villa-Lobos box sets available. I forget which string quartet perform in that box, but they pale in comparison with the Latinoamericano Quartet on Dorian. I'm not sure if you want to spend any more money on these works, but this is the box set that I highly recommend:
 
 
 
You will find that the performances in this set are more authentic and convincing.
 

Well, I have the Brilliant Box - the performers are the Cuarteto Latinamericano, licensed from the Dorian label - love those works & this recording of them!  :D

But I must say that my V-L collection needs to be tweaked & updated (or added to?) - so will look forward to this re-activated thread - Dave  :)

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2010, 07:46:12 AM »
Well, I have the Brilliant Box - the performers are the Cuarteto Latinamericano, licensed from the Dorian label - love those works & this recording of them!  :D

So, wait, the Brilliant box has the same performances as the Dorian?

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2010, 07:50:18 AM »
So, wait, the Brilliant box has the same performances as the Dorian?

Yes, David - would I tell you a fib!  ;D  Dave

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2010, 07:50:42 AM »
Yes, David - would I tell you a fib!  ;D  Dave

No, sir, you would not.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2010, 07:52:16 AM »
Well, I have the Brilliant Box - the performers are the Cuarteto Latinamericano, licensed from the Dorian label - love those works & this recording of them!  :D

But I must say that my V-L collection needs to be tweaked & updated (or added to?) - so will look forward to this re-activated thread - Dave  :)

You are absolutely correct. My mistake. Sorry about that. I was thinking about the Marco Polo releases of the string quartets. Anyway, the newly released Dorian set is remastered and includes a DVD where the Latinoamericano Quartet perform "String Quartet No. 1" and talk about performing and recording the Villa-Lobos string quartets.
 
Also I do not own the Brilliant set, I own the Dorian one. Sorry for the confusion everybody.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 07:53:49 AM by Mirror Image »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2010, 08:05:30 AM »
I'm embarrassed to admit that out of a collection of several thousand CDs, I do not (to my knowledge) have a single piece by Villa Lobos represented in my collection.   ???

My collection of classical music consists of maybe 900 CDs and I have these recordings of Villa-Lobos:

Complete Music for Solo Guitar - Naxos
Piano Music Volume 1 - Naxos
Chamber Music - Naxos
Chôros Nos. 2, 3, 10 & 12 - BIS
Chôros Nos. 8 & 9 - Naxos
Chôros No. 11 - Ondine
Cello Concertos - MDG
Symphonies Nos. 6 & 8 - CPO
Discovery of Brazil, Suites Nos. 1-4 - Marco Polo
The 5 Piano Concertos - Decca 2CD
Symphony No. 10 "Amerindia" - Harmonia Mundi
Bachianas Brasileiras & Guitar Concerto - EMI 3CD
String Quartets (Complete) - Brilliant Classics 6CD
String Quartets 1-3 - Kuarup Discos
String Quartets 15-17 - Kuarup Discos


The Kuarup Discos CDs were donated to me by my Brazilian working pal who gave away stuff before going back to Brazilia. I seem to prefer orchestral music by Villa-Lobos and I admire his colourful use of orchestra. My most favorite works are Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 3, 4 and 7. I bought the complete String Quartets boxset because of the rave reviews everywhere this forum included but I haven't warmed up to it as much as I expected.

I think the availability of Villa-Lobos' music on CD has improved much over the last 10 years. It's a good thing because this is a very important composer we are talking about.

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2010, 08:17:26 AM »
My collection of classical music consists of maybe 900 CDs and I have these recordings of Villa-Lobos:

Complete Music for Solo Guitar - Naxos
Piano Music Volume 1 - Naxos
Chamber Music - Naxos
Chôros Nos. 2, 3, 10 & 12 - BIS
Chôros Nos. 8 & 9 - Naxos
Chôros No. 11 - Ondine
Cello Concertos - MDG
Symphonies Nos. 6 & 8 - CPO
Discovery of Brazil, Suites Nos. 1-4 - Marco Polo
The 5 Piano Concertos - Decca 2CD
Symphony No. 10 "Amerindia" - Harmonia Mundi
Bachianas Brasileiras & Guitar Concerto - EMI 3CD
String Quartets (Complete) - Brilliant Classics 6CD
String Quartets 1-3 - Kuarup Discos
String Quartets 15-17 - Kuarup Discos
...................

Poju - nice list; attached is a 'screen capture' from my classical music database of the V-L works that I own currently - now, I've not listened to these discs in a while which I must soon correct!  But I'd appreciate any comments concerning other recordings, replacements, additions, etc.  Thanks all - Dave  :D

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2010, 01:39:11 PM »
Since we're talking about Villa-Lobos collections, here is mine:

-Complete Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras, John Neschling, Roberto Minczuk, Sao Paulo Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, BIS
-Complete Bachianas Brasileiras, Kenneth Schermerhorn, Nashville Symphony Orch., 3-CDs, Naxos
-Complete Symphonies, Carl St. Clair, SWR Radio Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, Cpo Records
-Complete String Quartets, Latinoamericano Quartet, 6-CDs + DVD, Dorian Recordings
-Genesis, Erosao, Amazonas, Dawn in a Tropical Forest, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony Orch., Marco Polo
-Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony, Marco Polo
-Symphony No. 6, Ruda, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony, Marco Polo
-Symphonic Dances, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony, Marco Polo
-The 5 Piano Concertos, Cristina Ortiz, Miguel Gomez-Martinez, Royal Philharmonic, 2-CDs, Decca
-Forest of the Amazon, Renee Fleming, Alfred Heller, Moscow Radio Symphony, Delos Records

-Forest of the Amazon, Anna Korondi, John Neschling, Sao Paulo Symphony Orch., BIS
-A Brazilian Extravaganze, Eleazar de Carvalho, Paraíba Symphony Orchestra, Delos Records
-Symphony No. 10, Giselle Ben-Dor, Santa Barbara Symphony, Koch

-Symphony No. 10, Victor Pablo Perez, Orquesta Sinfonica Tenerife, Harmonia Mundi
-Symphony No. 4, Cello Concerto No. 2, Amazonas, Enrique Arturo Diemecke, Simon Bolivar Symphony Orch. of Venezuela, Dorian Recordings
-Piano Music, Sofia Rubinsky, 8-CDs, Naxos
-Choros Nos. 8 & 9, Kenneth Schermerhorn, Hong Kong Philharmonic, Naxos (originally released on Marco Polo)
-Orchestral Works (includes world premiere of last ballet Emperor Jones), Jan Wagner, Odense Symphony Orchestra, Bridge
-Alma Brasileira: Music of Villa-Lobos, Renee Fleming, Michael Tilson Thomas, New World Symphony Orch., RCA
-Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 2 & 5, Concerto For Guitar, Amazonas, Emmanuel Krivine, Lyon National Orch., Apex/Warner
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 07:28:16 PM by Mirror Image »
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2010, 02:02:12 PM »
Since we're talking about Villa-Lobos collections, here is mine:

-Complete Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras, John Neschling, Roberto Minczuk, Sao Paulo Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, BIS
-Complete Bachianas Brasileiras, Kenneth Schermerhorn, Nashville Symphony Orch., 3-CDs, Naxos
-Complete Symphonies, Carl St. Clair, SWR Radio Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, Cpo Records
.......................
-Piano Music, Sofia Rubinsky, 8-CDs, Naxos

MI - great list w/ some comparative recordings!  :D

I do not own the Symphonies - which is your preference for conductor/orchestra?  I do love the CPO label, but I suspect these 7 discs are each in their own jewel box?  (sorry but I'm a 'storage freak', i.e. need MORE space!).

The BIS release looks great! Now I already own these works, so would appreciate comments vs. the ones I have in my listing?

Finally, I have Rubinsky in 3 of her Naxos discs - she has received great reviews, and I would like to own the rest, but Naxos seems to have packaged these in separate jewel boxes and not at a reduced price - just not their usual practice.

Any comments would be appreciated - thanks!  Dave  :)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2010, 02:13:38 PM »
MI - great list w/ some comparative recordings!  :D

I do not own the Symphonies - which is your preference for conductor/orchestra?  I do love the CPO label, but I suspect these 7 discs are each in their own jewel box?  (sorry but I'm a 'storage freak', i.e. need MORE space!).

The BIS release looks great! Now I already own these works, so would appreciate comments vs. the ones I have in my listing?

Finally, I have Rubinsky in 3 of her Naxos discs - she has received great reviews, and I would like to own the rest, but Naxos seems to have packaged these in separate jewel boxes and not at a reduced price - just not their usual practice.

Any comments would be appreciated - thanks!  Dave  :)

 
Thanks for the compliments.
 
The symphonies of Villa-Lobos are very seldom heard works. In fact, the St. Clair/SWR box set includes many world premiere recordings. The performances overall are really good. The audio quality as expected with Cpo is great. Since there aren't many comparative performances of the symphonies, I can't really compare these performances with anything. I do own three different versions of "Symphony No. 10," two of "Symphony No. 4" and two of "Symphony No. 6." I think the Cpo recordings make strong cases for these symphonies. I really wished John Neschling or Eduardo Mata recorded Villa-Lobos symphonies. I prefer them in this repertoire, but alas, St. Clair does a fine job. Roberto Duarte is also another outstanding Villa-Lobos conductor. His Marco Polo recordings are fantastic. You should try and track them down.
 
One of the great things about the BIS set is it contains all of the "Choros," which aren't played that often, probably because of their difficulty. Neschling turns in some remarkable performances of these works with the Sao Paulo Symphony. "Choros No. 11," which is essentially a piano concerto is one of the finest works I think Villa-Lobos ever composed. It's a massive work full of breathtaking beauty. "Choros Nos 4, 6, 10" are my other favorites. The "Choros" like the "Bachianas" are scored for different instrumental lineups, but the ones that employ the full orchestra are simply outstanding. "Choros No. 10" gets played a lot, which was written for chorus and orchestra. It has a very primal quality to it. The BIS set as far as I'm concerned is a must-own for fans of this music.
 
P.S. Yes, the Cpo set has all of the jewel cases. I realize some people like the paper sleeves, I like the jewel cases, but then again, I seldom think about storage. I probably should think about this aspect of collecting more often, but I don't. I'm one sick puppy. :)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 02:30:21 PM by Mirror Image »
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2010, 03:40:36 PM »
MI - thanks for your excellent & thorough comments in the previous post - I certainly need to explore the Symphonies & the BIS collection is of great interest - need to contemplate my choices vs. what I already own for the latter -  :D

I'm still curious about your thoughts on the 'solo piano' works w/ Rubinsky - I like her on the 3 discs that I own, but again I think that Naxos just packaged all in separate jewel boxes (vs. their usual slip sleeves for larger sets)?

But regarding 'storage', I own over 4K CDs and like jewel boxes - I've moved part of my collection to another room & need to build some more cabinets (I'm an amateur woodworker) - so, I'm always thinking about 'shrinking' my storage options - but just me, I guess!  Dave   :)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2010, 04:23:36 PM »
MI - thanks for your excellent & thorough comments in the previous post - I certainly need to explore the Symphonies & the BIS collection is of great interest - need to contemplate my choices vs. what I already own for the latter -  :D

I'm still curious about your thoughts on the 'solo piano' works w/ Rubinsky - I like her on the 3 discs that I own, but again I think that Naxos just packaged all in separate jewel boxes (vs. their usual slip sleeves for larger sets)?

But regarding 'storage', I own over 4K CDs and like jewel boxes - I've moved part of my collection to another room & need to build some more cabinets (I'm an amateur woodworker) - so, I'm always thinking about 'shrinking' my storage options - but just me, I guess!  Dave   :)

You're welcome. I enjoy conversing with people, especially when it pertains to composers that I really enjoy. ;)
 
Sorry I didn't comment about the piano music set with Rubinsky. Let me say, it's really good. I don't have much to compare it to, because I'm still new to his solo piano music, but I've listened to discs 1-6 so far and have been impressed. The whole series is definitely worth acquiring and yes all of the discs are just the original releases housed in a box. The artwork on the box set is really cool looking:
 

 

 
About storage, I have several filing cabinets that I have my CDs stored in, but I also have some well made, hard plastic containers that I use to store some CDs as well. Most of my collection is organized, but it's not alphabetized yet, which I hope one day to be able to do. I own around 6,000 classical recordings, but this is just a rough guess. For a long period of time, I kept a list of my collection via Microsoft Word, but for awhile there I was buying at such a rapid pace that before I knew it, I couldn't catch up inputing all the recordings I had acquired, so now it's just terribly out-of-date. Trying to find the time to catalog my collection is probably what is holding me back from doing it. There's just never enough time in the day.
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:28:42 PM by Mirror Image »
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2010, 04:21:57 PM »
Somebody asked me in the "Desert Island Disc" thread about what I consider to be Villa-Lobos' masterpieces?
 
Here is a list of works I consider essential Villa-Lobos:
 
In no particular order:
 
-Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 2 & 3
-Choros Nos. 6, 8-11
-Symphonies Nos. 4, 6, and 10
-Uirapuru
-Genesis
-Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4 (especially No. 4)
-Guitar Concerto
-Forest of the Amazon
-String Quartets Nos. 1 & 6 (I'm still absorbing these works, but 1 & 6 are especially fine)
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2010, 10:35:18 PM »
I have enjoyed the music of Villa-Lobos since I became acquainted with it two years ago. Of course, I had heard the 5th Bachianas on radio (who hasn't?) but I had not heard anything else by him. Now I've got a small but good collection of some of his works, like the complete Bachianas, two of the Choros, the Naxos chamber works cd, his Guitar Concerto, Fantasy for saxophone, and Cristina Ortiz playing some of his piano music (both solo and with orchestra).

It must be remembered that he was also a brilliant conductor, and was friends with the cream of the international music scene, from pianist Artur Rubinstein to composer Edgard Varese. He also knew how to play virtually every instrument, and this mastery can be heard in much of his music. He started out with Bach, but his style encompassed everything from virtually all of the styles of the early to mid C20th, and (of course) Brazilian folk idioms.

I would really like to see something by him done live here in Sydney, but I haven't seen anything on the cards so far. There was something played at the Australian Festival of Chamber Music up in Townsville (Queensland), though (but I don't travel that far to see music, I'm not that obsessed!). Anyway, I'll keep my ears and eyes open to see if anything comes up...

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Villa-Lobos Anyone?
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2010, 01:16:13 AM »
Poju - nice list; attached is a 'screen capture' from my classical music database of the V-L works that I own currently - now, I've not listened to these discs in a while which I must soon correct!  But I'd appreciate any comments concerning other recordings, replacements, additions, etc.  Thanks all - Dave  :D

Sorry about the delay. Your collection isn't bad either.  ;) The Naxos set of Bachianas Brasileiras is one of those thousands things I'd like to own. Maybe someday.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Ecclesiastical Secularism"