Villa-Lobos Anyone?

[Mirror Image]

Sorry about the delay. Your collection isn't bad either.  The Naxos set of Bachianas Brasileiras is one of those thousands things I'd like to own. Maybe someday.

The Naxos set is quite good. I think Neschling on BIS edges Schermerhorn out with orchestral performance and audio quality, but both sets are worth owning. Schermerhorn was an early champion of Villa-Lobos and his recording with Choros Nos. 8 & 9 were major contributions the Villa-Lobos catalog at the time of their release (1980s).

[Mirror Image]

A new recording of Forest of the Amazon is available from BIS just to let everybody know. It is with John Neschling and the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra. It's a fantastic recording. I still think Alfred Heller's recording with Renee Fleming and the Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra is amazing. If you don't own the Heller, buy it first, then the Neschling.

[Sid]

I think I saw the Fleming recording of Forest at the library and I will definitely be borrowing it at some stage. I'm surprised that they have quite a bit of this composer, because he's not exactly "mainstream." But I also saw other good stuff, so I'll be making a point to borrow more over the next few months.

I was talking about Villa-Lobos to a Brazilian woman I know, and she said the the Choro was a more sophisticated type of Samba. But she also said that there are many other Brazilian composers alive & working today (not decomposing!) & next time I meet her I'll ask her what she knows about this, becuase the only Brazilians I have heard so far are him & Camargo Guarneri (both no longer with us for decades)...

[Mirror Image]

I think I saw the Fleming recording of Forest at the library and I will definitely be borrowing it at some stage.

No Latin American composer is mainstream and I think this alone peaks an interest in those wanting to hear the music. There are many great recordings of Villa-Lobos' music available. Forest of the Amazon would be an interesting place to start examing VL's output outside of the Bachianas Brasileiras. I still think his Choros series is better musically than the Bachianas. For me, VL's music is about the observations of the landscape and the people that were around him: the jungles, the Amazon River, the idigenous people, the street musicians in Rio de Janeiro, etc. These are things you can feel in his music.

Sid, I think investigating his music more in-depth would be a positive thing for you to do. When you go back to that library, look for Roberto Duarte's VL recordings on Marco Polo. These are outstanding recordings that I think you will enjoy.

[snyprrr]

Does anyone know this piece (which may be spelled slightly differently)? It comes at the end of some V-L guitar recital (mostly solo?) on cd, and is remembered as being quite tropical and quite mystical.

[snyprrr]

NNNNnnnnnnnnoooooOOOOoooOOOOooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Air]

No Latin American composer is mainstream and I think this alone peaks an interest in those wanting to hear the music. There are many great recordings of Villa-Lobos' music available. Forest of the Amazon would be an interesting place to start examing VL's output outside of the Bachianas Brasileiras. I still think his Choros series is better musically than the Bachianas. For me, VL's music is about the observations of the landscape and the people that were around him: the jungles, the Amazon River, the idigenous people, the street musicians in Rio de Janeiro, etc. These are things you can feel in his music.

Sid, I think investigating his music more in-depth would be a positive thing for you to do. When you go back to that library, look for Roberto Duarte's VL recordings on Marco Polo. These are outstanding recordings that I think you will enjoy.

MI, I almost picked up a copy of Heller's A Floresta do Amazonas a couple years ago after hearing some fantastic samples of the work on Amazon; however, some financial issues prevented me from actually pulling the trigger.  Due to your enthusiasm, I think I will get it once I have the means to do so!

[Mirror Image]

MI, I almost picked up a copy of Heller's A Floresta do Amazonas a couple years ago after hearing some fantastic samples of the work on Amazon; however, some financial issues prevented me from actually pulling the trigger.  Due to your enthusiasm, I think I will get it once I have the means to do so!

Yes, please get it! It's a great recording. After doing some heavy comparisons between Heller's and Neschling's recording of this work, I have to say that right now Heller wins. The playing seems much more rawer (thanks to the Moscow Radio Symphony Orch.) and overall I think Heller was much more intune with this work than Neschling. That said, Neschling is an outstanding Villa-Lobos conductor, but I don't think he was as inspired as Heller in this recording.

Anyway, get the Heller. You won't be sorry.

[jhar26]

Yes, please get it! It's a great recording. After doing some heavy comparisons between Heller's and Neschling's recording of this work, I have to say that right now Heller wins. The playing seems much more rawer (thanks to the Moscow Radio Symphony Orch.) and overall I think Heller was much more intune with this work than Neschling. That said, Neschling is an outstanding Villa-Lobos conductor, but I don't think he was as inspired as Heller in this recording.

Anyway, get the Heller. You won't be sorry.

It's very good indeed. Since it's a long (75 minutes) work I feared that there would be a lot of filler, but I love it from start to finish. Renée Fleming deserves a mention I think - she's really superb. My only minor complaint is that there isn't a track-by-track narrative included in the booklet, but at least the lyrics of the songs are included and the titles of the individual tracks are informative themselves.

[Air]

It's very good indeed. Since it's a long (75 minutes) work I feared that there would be a lot of filler, but I love it from start to finish. Renée Fleming deserves a mention I think - she's really superb. My only minor complaint is that there isn't a track-by-track narrative included in the booklet, but at least the lyrics of the songs are included and the titles of the individual tracks are informative themselves.

The work is a narrative?

[jhar26]

The work is a narrative?

Villa-Lobos initially wrote music for an Audrey Hepburn movie called "Green Mansions" but what ended up in the movie had little to do with his score, so an angry Villa-Lobos added material to his original score and reworked it into what could be described as a symphonic poem and cantata about W.H. Hudson's novel on which the movie was based.

[Mirror Image]

It's very good indeed. Since it's a long (75 minutes) work I feared that there would be a lot of filler, but I love it from start to finish. Renée Fleming deserves a mention I think - she's really superb. My only minor complaint is that there isn't a track-by-track narrative included in the booklet, but at least the lyrics of the songs are included and the titles of the individual tracks are informative themselves.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yes, it's a great work. From here, you should hear his Symphony No. 10, which is, essentially, a choral symphony. It's a beautiful work that is quite ambitious. Also, Choros No. 10 would also be a great place to go from Forest of the Amazon.

[snyprrr]

V-L wrote four SQs in his first period. No.1 is a suite, which some above have claimed as a favorite.

No.3 is the SQ where V-L's Brazilianness fully comes out for the first time. It is beautifully languid in a way that the French couldn't conceive of (until Milhaud!). It is the most expansive of the four, a true, unique, New Voice in the medium (at the time), in that, I think, the tropical climate had never been depicted in such a way before. This is a very intimate portrayal of V-L's country.

No.4, by comparison, would be called the "Bach" Quartet, because of its objective use of materials, sounding, quite frankly, like Bach from Brazil. Perhaps here is where we could start comparing the Bach of V-L with the Bach of, say, Hindemith (Bach lovers both)? I really suggest that readers who love V-L's First Period should get in touch with SQs 3-4.

Though No.2 is a quatum leap from the suite of No.1, I found it surprisingly weak listening to it last night. I invite anyone else's more astute assessment, of course. I don't know what I could be missing, but this just seems like a dry template for what would become the 3-4 duo. Maybe I'm just right?

WARNING: You may not be able to find a more pleasantly carefree SQ than Villa-Lobos No.3 (next to Milhaud SQs 1-2).

btw- I have the Bessler-Reis/Amazonia cycle, the only fully Brazilian cycle.

That's right, I'm doin' the jiggy dance!

[The new erato]

btw- I have the Bessler-Reis/Amazonia cycle, the only fully Brazilian cycle.

That's right, I'm doin' the jiggy dance!

How do  you know the palyers are sporting Brazilians?

[snyprrr]

Just watch Choros 10, and parts of 11, on YouTube. 10 gets my vote! Infectious!

[snyprrr]

I) early period (- @1919):

Chamber wise, there is some piano music, some music for violin/cello and piano (including 3-4 sonatas), SQs 1-4, Piano Trios 1-3 (all), and Octeto, and the Sexteto Mistico.

Orchestrally, we have the Sinfonietta No.1, the Suite for Strings, and some Danzas, all leading up to Uirapuru and Amazonas, the culmination of this first phase.

Also, we have the Symphonies 1-4, of which I would love to hear some comment.



II) The '20s:

seem to be preoccupied with the Choros (incl. most of his highly personal wind chamber music), which conveniently lead into...

III) 1930-1945:

the Bachianas Brasileiras (incl. Discovery of Brazil), which conveniently leads into...

IV/V) 1945-54/55-1958:

1)the Symphonies 6-12,

2)the Piano Ctos 1-5,

3)the concertos for sax, bassoon, guitar, harmonica, and harp (Milhaud?),

4)the SQs 8-17,

which, in the very last years (as with Bloch) blossom into a potpurri Late Phase, including two Band favorites, two more evocations (Genesis and Erosion), and a few other concertante works. It seems like here he is tying up loose ends (the Cello Cto No.2 coming @40 years after the first, and so on). At the very end we also have the Flowers of Brazil. Also there are some small chamber stragglers.







Now I know why V-L has always confused me: because he, Bloch, Milhaud, Chavez, Martinu, and many others (Hindemith in the middle), all seem to have the same trajectory. They have this early, experimental phase, which leads into the learning phase, which inevitably leads into WWII, which seems to change them all a little. And, then they all start dying '58-'63.

Honestly, I make this list for myself, but please, illuminate me!

[Mirror Image]

I) early period (- @1919):

Chamber wise, there is some piano music, some music for violin/cello and piano (including 3-4 sonatas), SQs 1-4, Piano Trios 1-3 (all), and Octeto, and the Sexteto Mistico.

Orchestrally, we have the Sinfonietta No.1, the Suite for Strings, and some Danzas, all leading up to Uirapuru and Amazonas, the culmination of this first phase.

Also, we have the Symphonies 1-4, of which I would love to hear some comment.

II) The '20s:

seem to be preoccupied with the Choros (incl. most of his highly personal wind chamber music), which conveniently lead into...

III) 1930-1945:

the Bachianas Brasileiras (incl. Discovery of Brazil), which conveniently leads into...

IV/V) 1945-54/55-1958:

1)the Symphonies 6-12,

2)the Piano Ctos 1-5,

3)the concertos for sax, bassoon, guitar, harmonica, and harp (Milhaud?),

4)the SQs 8-17,

which, in the very last years (as with Bloch) blossom into a potpurri Late Phase, including two Band favorites, two more evocations (Genesis and Erosion), and a few other concertante works. It seems like here he is tying up loose ends (the Cello Cto No.2 coming @40 years after the first, and so on). At the very end we also have the Flowers of Brazil. Also there are some small chamber stragglers.

Now I know why V-L has always confused me: because he, Bloch, Milhaud, Chavez, Martinu, and many others (Hindemith in the middle), all seem to have the same trajectory. They have this early, experimental phase, which leads into the learning phase, which inevitably leads into WWII, which seems to change them all a little. And, then they all start dying '58-'63.

Honestly, I make this list for myself, but please, illuminate me!

This is a very good summary of VL's compositional history. I like all of his "phases." I don't really have any objections to the observations you made.

[Mirror Image]

BUMP!!!

[SonicMan46]

I) early period (- @1919):

Chamber wise, there is some piano music, some music for violin/cello and piano (including 3-4 sonatas), SQs 1-4, Piano Trios 1-3 (all), and Octeto, and the Sexteto Mistico.

Snyprrr - nice chronological summary of V-L's output - thanks - I too would like to hear some Symphony comments - own none at the moment - 

BUT - I did just acquire the 2-CD set shown below of the Three Piano Trios w/ the Damocles Trio - this received an excellent review in Fanfare (which is attached); as stated in your comments, these are 'early' works in a European late-Romantic style (i.e. before he went to Paris and then started on his Brazilian flavored composing) - however, quite enjoyable w/ an additional work included from another Brazilian composer, Lorenzo Fernandez - Marco Polo offers these trios on 2 different discs, but this current group is young and puts in a superb effort - in addition from the comments made previously in this thread, I'm putting together a small Amazon order which will include the disc (below, right) w/ Renee Fleming! 

 

[bhodges]

Dave, don't know if you saw my write-up of the Damocles CD, but I liked it, too--a lot.

PS, the group's pianist, Adam Kent, also did this superb Halffter CD below.

[asin]B000056QEE[/asin]

--Bruce