Villa-Lobos Anyone?

Started by bvy, March 01, 2008, 03:33:40 PM

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Karl Henning

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 18, 2022, 02:09:26 PM
Hi John - believe that I'll enjoy the Karabtchevsky from my Spotify listening this morning.  Thanks for noticing the spreadsheet typos - I have plenty of those - kind of boring to make mutliple entries so I go fast and don't always double check (and me a medical writer during my career!  :laugh: )

Karl - not sure that I'd go as far as John on the Piano Concertos comments - V-L started these later in his life (58 y/o for the first one) and probably not that motivated to compose at his best level, just a thought; I'm listening now to PCs 3-5 and am enjoying (would I rather be listening to something else by him - probably) - the writing can be rambling w/ at times weird dynamic shifts (I've attached some reviews - one from Grammophone w/ a cautioned recommendation and one from Amazon, someone I usually like but leaving only a 2*/5* rating); now the Brazilian pianist, Christina Ortiz is wonderful as usual and gives her best to put this music across - my best recommendation is try to stream several of the works and then decide - it's an inexpensive double-Decca.  Dave :)

Thanks, Dave. Cristina Ortiz is mighty fine in the "piano concerto Choros" (or is it a Bachianas? ... I admit to some bewilderment in this composer's expansive œuvre.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 18, 2022, 01:21:05 PM
Interesting, John. For the present, I'll content myself with listening through the symphonies.

As Dave pointed out, don't let me deter you from giving these works a listen. You may very well enjoy them more than I did, but as I mentioned, I'm probably being unfair as it's been years since I've heard these works.

Maestro267

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 18, 2022, 02:42:05 PM
Thanks, Dave. Cristina Ortiz is mighty fine in the "piano concerto Choros" (or is it a Bachianas? ... I admit to some bewilderment in this composer's expansive œuvre.

There's one in each cycle, and Ortiz has recorded both. Bachianas Brasileiras No. 3 and Choros No. 11.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Maestro267 on July 19, 2022, 12:52:01 AM
There's one in each cycle, and Ortiz has recorded both. Bachianas Brasileiras No. 3 and Choros No. 11.

Thanks for the light!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Leo K.

I've been becoming addicted to Villa-Lobos - started with the symphonies 8 though 11, and now trying out the Choros (wow there is so much). I'm also impressed with the guitar and harmonica concertos. Just so much treasure it can be overwhelming. Decided to hold the collecting until I grasp what I have.

Florestan

Quote from: Leo K. on November 28, 2022, 01:37:05 PMI'm also impressed with the guitar and harmonica concertos.

I have only this recording and I must say that I enjoyed the guitar concerto (much) more than the harmonica one. My favorite Villa-Lobos so far, though, is the Pica Pau choro and the choro which is a piano concerto in all but name (can't remember their numbers otomh).



Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Leo K.

Quote from: Florestan on November 29, 2022, 01:17:46 PMI have only this recording and I must say that I enjoyed the guitar concerto (much) more than the harmonica one. My favorite Villa-Lobos so far, though, is the Pica Pau choro and the choro which is a piano concerto in all but name (can't remember their numbers otomh).





That's the same recording I have. I like the harmonica concerto as I play harmonica too (though not like this). You must mean the Choro 11? I was getting overwhelmed by all the Choros so I went back to the symphonies, as that's a form I can grasp when there is soooo much music - it's too much at times!

Maestro267

Are the string quartets worth exploring?

Mapman

Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?

I was impressed by Quartet #17. I can't say about the rest, though.

ritter

Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?
I'm probably not the best person to ask this question, as I am ambivalent about Villa-Lobos in general, but I found very little to admire in the SQs when I started exploring them a couple of years ago (TBH, I think I didn't even complete the exploration). I found that surprising, as usually I get the impression that most composers are at (or near) their best in the SQ medium (that quintessential vehicle of absolute, pure music). IIRC, the early SQs were rather crude, and had kitschy moments of Brazilian melancholy ("saudade") that sounded downright cheap to me. I'm probably in a minority here (to each his own), but a good friend who is virtually an omnivore as far as 20th century music is concerned, also said he had no time to spare on these SQs.

I should revisit SQ No. 7 in light of Mapman's comment above...

SonicMan46

Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?

Well, these are Brazilian-flavored 20th century String Quartets often ranked below those of Bartok and Shostakovitch - for me I prefer to listen to Villa-Lobos despite owning 2 sets each of the other two - the recording to own is shown below (possibly obtainable as a 6-disc box bargain when I made my purchase) - reviews attached, if interested.  Dave :)


vandermolen

Quote from: ritter on July 10, 2023, 06:23:41 AMI'm probably not the best person to ask this question, as I am ambivalent about Villa-Lobos in general, but I found very little to admire in the SQs when I started exploring them a couple of years ago (TBH, I think I didn't even complete the exploration). I found that surprising, as usually I get the impression that most composers are at (or near) their best in the SQ medium (that quintessential vehicle of absolute, pure music). IIRC, the early SQs were rather crude, and had kitschy moments of Brazilian melancholy ("saudade") that sounded downright cheap to me. I'm probably in a minority here (to each his own), but a good friend who is virtually an omnivore as far as 20th century music is concerned, also said he had no time to spare on these SQs.

I should revisit SQ No. 7 in light of Mapman's comment above...
I like the 3rd (War) and 4th (Victory) symphonies and Chorus No.10 but that's about it.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Symphonic Addict

#432
If I remember correctly, Villa-Lobos didn't think highly of his first quartets. However, I don't consider that an impediment to enjoy those and all of the quartets as it's music with very catchy rhythms and generous melodic content.

Other works I recommend by him other than the Bachianas Brasileiras, the Chôros and the symphonies are the piano trios, the cello concertos, Floresta do Amazonas, Quinteto instrumental, Sexteto mistico, the String Trio (the CPO recording is the one to consider), a Marco Polo CD featuring some orchestral works/tone poems whose content I don't remember right now but it's certainly a must-have for any Villa-Lobos fan IMO, among other works.

If John were here, he would surely agree with me. 😉
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

lordlance

Quote from: ritter on July 10, 2023, 06:23:41 AMI found that surprising, as usually I get the impression that most composers are at (or near) their best in the SQ medium (that quintessential vehicle of absolute, pure music). 
Are you just a major of SQ fan? It might just be a matter of preferences. I have always wanted to hear composers' symphonies. 
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

ritter

Quote from: lordlance on July 10, 2023, 11:19:06 AMAre you just a major of SQ fan? ...
Not really (or, better put, not necessarily). I like many genres —opera, orchestral, solo piano—, but do think there's something special in SQs.

Regards from Spain, lordlance!

vers la flamme

@ritter I'm a sucker for the saudade. Your less than laudatory review of the early quartets makes me want to hear them  ;D

In seriousness though, I've known about this composer for many many years, but never got into him. He wrote so much music. Maybe someone who knows the composer well could tell me what are 3-5 works that are a cut above the rest?

kyjo

Quote from: vers la flamme on July 10, 2023, 03:07:34 PM@ritter I'm a sucker for the saudade. Your less than laudatory review of the early quartets makes me want to hear them  ;D

In seriousness though, I've known about this composer for many many years, but never got into him. He wrote so much music. Maybe someone who knows the composer well could tell me what are 3-5 works that are a cut above the rest?

I'm no V-L expert and I'm only familiar with less than half of his massive output, but I can confidently recommend his Bachianas Brasileiras nos. 1, 3, and 4, Chôros no. 10 (I don't know most of the others, admittedly), Symphonies nos. 2 and 6, Cello Concerto no. 2, Uirapuru, and Sexteto místico. Oops, that's more than 3-5 works... ;)
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

DavidW

Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?

Yup they are what got me into V-L.  Some of the finest string quartets of the 20th century imho.

DavidW

Quote from: DavidW on July 12, 2023, 06:34:58 PMYup they are what got me into V-L.  Some of the finest string quartets of the 20th century imho.

Before I get immolated I should quite a bit below Shostakovich, Bartok, Janacek, Debussy, Ravel, Carter and Martinu.