Eduard Tubin (1905-82)

[springrite]

I would classify it as the best concerto written for the bass....but a major problem with it is that it's over-orchestrated for the bass

He surely composed the best concerto for balalaika, not that the competition in that genre is particularly fierce.

[Mirror Image]

'Twas merely a question. 

I would classify it as the best concerto written for the bass....but a major problem with it is that it's over-orchestrated for the bass

What other works by Tubin have you heard, Paul?

[PaulR]

Most of the symphonies from the Jarvi set, and the music from the bass concerto disc

[Mirror Image]

Most of the symphonies from the Jarvi set, and the music from the bass concerto disc

Cool, I'm glad at least you're familiar with his idiom. I really admire his later symphonies, but the 1st and 4th are especially memorable for me.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

What a sad life Tubin lived. He, of course, lived in Sweden for a good portion of his life due to Soviet occupancy of Estonia. His music as I continue to listen reveals, especially in the later works, a feeling of homesickness and depression that the country he once knew would never regain it's independence. Of course, this isn't true as Estonia finally gained independence in 1991. If only Tubin had lived to see this, he would have died a happy man.

An interesting side point to this, however, is that he made several trips back to Estonia during the 1960s, mainly to promote his own works in his homeland. His work was even recorded by Melodiya, the official Soviet record company. This was characteristic of the "Thaw" period - I think his first visit was made about the same time as Stravinsky's triumphant return to Russia.

[Mirror Image]

An interesting side point to this, however, is that he made several trips back to Estonia during the 1960s, mainly to promote his own works in his homeland. His work was even recorded by Melodiya, the official Soviet record company. This was characteristic of the "Thaw" period - I think his first visit was made about the same time as Stravinsky's triumphant return to Russia.

I knew he made several trips back but he never lived there again.

[Christo]

Anyone else familiar with this work and this recording? Volmer seems to be a highly acclaimed interpreter of Tubin seeing as he's already recorded the symphonies.

He definitely is. Yes, I own the cd, for a couple of years already. But no: didn't find time to play it really. Love all the symphonies dearly though, especially the later ones (6-10) and the Lirica (no. 4).

[Mirror Image]

He definitely is. Yes, I own the cd, for a couple of years already. But no: didn't find time to play it really. Love all the symphonies dearly though, especially the later ones (6-10) and the Lirica (no. 4).

You haven't listened to Kratt yet? Oh my...

You're going to have to remedy this, Christo as soon as possible!

[Christo]

You haven't listened to Kratt yet? Oh my...

You're going to have to remedy this, Christo as soon as possible!

Yessir!

[vandermolen]

A former colleague of mind said that Tubin's fine 4th Symphony reminded him always of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony' - an interesting point. My enthusiasm for Tubin remains undimmed. If you like him try Raid's Symphony No 1 on Chandos - a magnificent score.

[Lethevich]

A former colleague of mind said that Tubin's fine 4th Symphony reminded him always of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony' - an interesting point. My enthusiasm for Tubin remains undimmed. If you like him try Raid's Symphony No 1 on Chandos - a magnificent score.

It feels very strongly like RVW filtered through Sibelius to me - perhaps this is why it functions as a "Tubin for people who don't like* Tubin" for me at the moment.

*Hyperbole - ambivalent is the more accurate word.

[Dundonnell]

How do Tubin admirers respond to the following criticisms (from the Pimlico Dictionary of Twentieth Century Composers):

"Their(the symphonies) failings are their unmemorable melodies and moments of banality(eg the quasi-jazz rhythms crossed with Khachaturian-like melodic line of the second movement of the sixth symphony); overall they add little to the body of symphonic language or structure."

It has to be said however that Mark Morris (the author) does have many complimentary things to say about individual symphonies and praises "the Scandinavian inevitability, the earnestness of an exile" and the "generally dark-hued view of the world".

He clearly admires Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6 and No.7 "perhaps the most impressive of the cycle in its purposeful construction and its scope". The concerti and non-symphonic orchestral music are dismissed as "anachronistic, trite, totally overblown and unmemorable".

I happen to love the Tubin symphonies and would reject Morris's criticisms but it would be interesting to hear a response from others.

[Lethevich]

I am sympathetic towards a composer writing in this manner, and if it helps, and I feel a similar "difficulty" to the quoted individual. Specifically, I feel a sense of a somewhat impersonal, slightly eclectic style that was not fully internalised as well as comparable composers. It's not a case of the technique of this type of composition being beyond the composer, because his music peaks of a great ability, but the fluidity of language that I seek, even in angular composers such as Shostakovich, is not fully present in much of Tubin's music. This can at times make the symphonies feel a bit cold in so far as I can clearly see what Tubin is trying to do, but often the works do not feel the sum of their parts. The essential spark of conceptual clarity, thematic inspiration, etc, somewhere along the way seems to this listener not to ignite, though it is painfully near to doing so.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

He clearly admires Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6 and No.7 "perhaps the most impressive of the cycle in its purposeful construction and its scope".

I'm glad to see someone sticking up for #7. It seldom seems to get mentioned, even among Tubin fans. But he's right about purposeful construction - it manages to be dramatic, brooding, and compact all at the same time, without the meandering that sometimes affects his symphonies.

[vandermolen]

How do Tubin admirers respond to the following criticisms (from the Pimlico Dictionary of Twentieth Century Composers):

"Their(the symphonies) failings are their unmemorable melodies and moments of banality(eg the quasi-jazz rhythms crossed with Khachaturian-like melodic line of the second movement of the sixth symphony); overall they add little to the body of symphonic language or structure."

It has to be said however that Mark Morris (the author) does have many complimentary things to say about individual symphonies and praises "the Scandinavian inevitability, the earnestness of an exile" and the "generally dark-hued view of the world".

He clearly admires Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6 and No.7 "perhaps the most impressive of the cycle in its purposeful construction and its scope". The concerti and non-symphonic orchestral music are dismissed as "anachronistic, trite, totally overblown and unmemorable".

I happen to love the Tubin symphonies and would reject Morris's criticisms but it would be interesting to hear a response from others.

What a load of old rubbish! I mean the Pimlico Dictionary remarks - not your post Colin 

I must listen to No 7, which I hardly know. I think that the symphonies are full of memorable thematic material and convey a strong sense of organic growth and a feeling for nature. Admirers of Tubin might like the Kinsella, Raid and Lilburn symphonies (Nos 1 and 2 at least).

[cilgwyn]

What a load of old rubbish! I mean the Pimlico Dictionary remarks - not you post Colin 

I must listen to No 7, which I hardly know. I think that the symphonies are full of memorable thematic material and convey a strong sense of organic growth and a feeling for nature. Admirers of Tubin might like the Kinsella, Raid and Lilburn symphonies (Nos 1 and 2 at least).

Makes me want to hear them even more! I have a twenty five year old off air cassette copy of No 2,which still works perfectly (and a working cassette deck,fortunately! ). I remember being very impressed at the time. But I STILL haven't bought a cd of it!!!!
I also have an elderly & still playable, off air cassette of No 7,which I enjoyed,but again I have yet to buy a cd copy!!!!!
I wonder why? I did enjoy them,I DID like them,ESPECIALLY No 2,but they lacked that special quality which made me want to rush & buy a copy,unlike some other off the beaten track symphonists I can think off. Also,I notice that,while at the time of Tubin's 'rediscovery' (c80's?) there seem to have been allot of rave reviews,since then,opinion seems to have palled & I have seen allot of negative opinions which keep putting me off!
Yet,this has never stopped me from buying cds of Langgaard,Brian,or even Bax?!!!!

By the way,I'm going to have to get that book,Dundonnell. But I fear that if I put it in the bathroom,with the old Penguin CD/Cassette guides,National Geographics,Which Magazines & IRR back issues,I'll never leave the seat!!!!!!

[Mirror Image]

I really want Volmer's Tubin series on Alba. I can only hope a box set will be released but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Mirror Image]

Yessir!

All Tubin fans need the complete ballet of Kratt. I can't tell you how many times I read a review where somebody said "Jarvi's Kratt is great but I wish he would have recorded the whole work." It seems to me, looking at Jarvi's discography, that he's not much of a ballet conductor. I know he conducted several of Stravinsky's ballets and Prokofiev's The Prodigal Son, but it seems he favors the suites over the full works. I never understood why, but I have to thank conductors like Volmer who took upon himself to record the whole work.

[cjvinthechair]

Glorious composer - thanks for everyone's insight.
Unless I've missed it, slightly surprised nobody's mentioned the 'Requiem for Fallen Soldiers', coupled with Sym. 10 on BIS. Maybe 'tortured' souls sometimes express themselves best in sung works?
                                                                                      Any thoughts ?                 Clive.

[vandermolen]

Have been listening to the Volmer version of Symphony No 3. It opens at a slower tempo than the Jarvi recording on BIS and is all the more moving as a consequence.