BBC Proms "not inclusive": Margaret Hodge

[MDL]

I've not really had time to digest this, but I thought I'd throw it into the arena. A quote from the BBC website:

The Proms attract too narrow a section of society and should be doing more to bring people together, culture minister Margaret Hodge has suggested. She praised "icons of a common culture" from Coronation Street to the Angel of the North in a speech on Britishness.
But the Proms was one of several major cultural events many people did not feel comfortable attending, she said.
A key part of the classical calendar for more than 100 years, the Proms aims to make music more accessible.
Critics say the size of the programme makes it chaotic and daunting and the traditional Last Night has been overwhelmed by jingoistic flag-waving.

The full article is here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7276684.stm

There is also a feature in the Guardian.

My immediate response; yes, the Last Night of the Proms can be a bit nauseating (I've only seen it on TV), and the Proms in general attract a larger proportion of Hooray Henrys and Henriettas than your average concert in, say, the Barbican or the Royal Festival Hall. But expecting the Proms to play a role in unifying a society that is going to hell in a handcart is a bit rich. Talk about scapegoating!

[Mark]

What successive British Culture Ministers know about culture could be written on the back of a pixel.

Ignore them and their ill-judged pronouncements (or drivel, as I hear it). They're a complete irrelevance to the arts ... and to politics, too, which is why they never get appointed to the jobs that really matter.

[bhodges]

I'm trying to imagine an American equivalent of the Proms, with a similarly large number of concerts and the variety.  Having only seen and heard excerpts from Proms concerts over the years, my feeling is that expecting "it" (i.e., the entire Proms schedule as some kind of single entity) to be liked by every person in the U.K. is like expecting every person in the U.S. to adore classical music.  It isn't going to happen.

And as for "...the size of the programme makes it chaotic and daunting," that seems like an odd pair of words.  I'm not sure what's "daunting" about buying tickets and going to a concert. 

--Bruce

[bhodges]

Here is a good post from On an Overgrown Path on the matter.  Here's an interesting excerpt:

"To sum up Kenyon's twelve years as Proms director, which earned him a knighthood and another top job in the music establishment, I need only repeat my prophetic words written in February 2007 - His tenure at the Proms has been marked by unimaginative planning which totally failed to reflect the diversity of today's contemporary music, and his programming repeatedly backed personal hobbyhorses at the expense of important voices."

--Bruce

[MDL]

Here is a good post from On an Overgrown Path on the matter.  Here's an interesting excerpt:

"To sum up Kenyon's twelve years as Proms director, which earned him a knighthood and another top job in the music establishment, I need only repeat my prophetic words written in February 2007 - His tenure at the Proms has been marked by unimaginative planning which totally failed to reflect the diversity of today's contemporary music, and his programming repeatedly backed personal hobbyhorses at the expense of important voices."

--Bruce

An interesting quote, but I doubt Ms Hodge is thinking in such relatively sophisticated terms. If you mention "contemporary music" to her, she'll be thinking of Paul McCartney, Madonna and probably Westlife. Her plans to make classical music more inclusive will probably include:

1) Get the Teletubbies to dance along with the music to get kids interested.
2) Give the men baseball caps and fake Uzis to get the yoof watchin', man.
3) Put the women in burkhas so that the Muslims aren't offended.
4) Guest appearances from Paul McCartney, Madonna. Oh, and Westlife.

[Mark]

An interesting quote, but I doubt Ms Hodge is thinking in such relatively sophisticated terms. If you mention "contemporary music" to her, she'll be thinking of Paul McCartney, Madonna and probably Westlife. Her plans to make classical music more inclusive will probably include:

1) Get the Teletubbies to dance along with the music to get kids interested.
2) Give the men baseball caps and fake Uzis to get the yoof watchin', man.
3) Put the women in burkhas so that the Muslims aren't offended.
4) Guest appearances from Paul McCartney, Madonna. Oh, and Westlife.

I'm having a shit working day. This cheered me up more than I can tell you.

[knight66]

Something like 86% of the concerts are capacity...as far as I can recall. it is all available free on the radio and computer, accessable to anyone who does not want to pay, travel or put up with concert etiquette.

Michael Ball was given a concert last year, that seemed pretty low brow and certainly not daunting.

Mike

[knight66]

I understand that Downing St has dissociated itself from the comments. Furthermore, the Arts Council in this year's funding round cut back a great deal on what might be thought of as the more accessable end of the market, it decided to pursue excellence. That decision caused some puzzling funding decisions; but it may signal an end to the encouragement by funding of the knit-your-own-goat-in-public attitude.

Mike

[Sef]

I'm having a shit working day. This cheered me up more than I can tell you.

Sorry to hear about your day - hope it had nothing to do with the other thread and my somewhat unrealistic utopian vision! I was so bored today I let myself get dragged into it a bit too much I think. Anyway, off home to crack open a bottle of wine. Suggest you do likewise (if you haven't already). Hopefully tomorrow will bring something new and exciting for you. Goodnight.

[techniquest]

The Proms attract too narrow a section of society and should be doing more to bring people together, culture minister Margaret Hodge has suggested. She praised "icons of a common culture" from Coronation Street to the Angel of the North in a speech on Britishness.

A great example of a minister talking in standard MP language i.e bo//ocks. Allow me to explain:
1. I fail to see how the icon of a common culture that is the Angel of the North does anything to bring people together where I live (SW England).
2. The Proms may attract too narrow a section of society - i.e that part of society that hasn't yet succumbed to the epidemic of 'dumbing down' which seems to have been an intrinsic part of British politics for rather too many years now.
3. As I understood it, the Proms is a celebration of good music from around the world played by top orchestras / conductors / soloists from around the world which does a damn sight more to 'bring people together' than an insipid 30 minutes of violence, sadness and infidelity that is Coronation Street.
4. Personally I don't like the 'Proms in the Parks'. I am uncomfortable when I see rows of pebbleheads waving the union flag - it reminds me too much of a football terrace. Nonetheless, people are brought together and presumably there are many who go to appreciate the music rather than shriek and wave frantically cos they're on the telly. Perhaps if Ms Hodge put more resources into the arts, more parks could have Proms, more people could have access to music and less would have to stay in and watch Corry!

[Mark]

A great example of a minister talking in standard MP language i.e bo//ocks. Allow me to explain:
1. I fail to see how the icon of a common culture that is the Angel of the North does anything to bring people together where I live (SW England).
2. The Proms may attract too narrow a section of society - i.e that part of society that hasn't yet succumbed to the epidemic of 'dumbing down' which seems to have been an intrinsic part of British politics for rather too many years now.
3. As I understood it, the Proms is a celebration of good music from around the world played by top orchestras / conductors / soloists from around the world which does a damn sight more to 'bring people together' than an insipid 30 minutes of violence, sadness and infidelity that is Coronation Street.
4. Personally I don't like the 'Proms in the Parks'. I am uncomfortable when I see rows of pebbleheads waving the union flag - it reminds me too much of a football terrace. Nonetheless, people are brought together and presumably there are many who go to appreciate the music rather than shriek and wave frantically cos they're on the telly. Perhaps if Ms Hodge put more resources into the arts, more parks could have Proms, more people could have access to music and less would have to stay in and watch Corry!

You speak for me, too. Bravo!

[MDL]

A great example of a minister talking in standard MP language i.e bo//ocks. Allow me to explain:
1. I fail to see how the icon of a common culture that is the Angel of the North does anything to bring people together where I live (SW England).
2. The Proms may attract too narrow a section of society - i.e that part of society that hasn't yet succumbed to the epidemic of 'dumbing down' which seems to have been an intrinsic part of British politics for rather too many years now.
3. As I understood it, the Proms is a celebration of good music from around the world played by top orchestras / conductors / soloists from around the world which does a damn sight more to 'bring people together' than an insipid 30 minutes of violence, sadness and infidelity that is Coronation Street.
4. Personally I don't like the 'Proms in the Parks'. I am uncomfortable when I see rows of pebbleheads waving the union flag - it reminds me too much of a football terrace. Nonetheless, people are brought together and presumably there are many who go to appreciate the music rather than shriek and wave frantically cos they're on the telly. Perhaps if Ms Hodge put more resources into the arts, more parks could have Proms, more people could have access to music and less would have to stay in and watch Corry!

(Well said, that man. It's the main topic in today's Guardian letters page. The first letter is a stinging response from cellist Steven Isserlis:)

Margaret Hodge is to be congratulated for having chosen the least appropriate of all musical events for her ill-advised attack (Hodge attacks Proms, March 4). The Proms are celebrated worldwide for their appeal to all possible audiences, from the most dedicated classical music anorak to the first-time concert-goer of any age or background. Had she singled out one of the opera houses where a dinner-jacket and bottle of champagne are required audience accessories, there might have been some point to her claims; but to attack the world's most popular classical music festival is ridiculous.

I very much doubt she has ever stood with the dedicated Prommers, listening intently to music ranging from medieval to hard-line contemporary. Having played several times at the Proms, I can testify to the unique atmosphere engendered by such open-minded concentration; every year, the festival reaffirms the joy that music can bring to people everywhere.

Interesting, too - and wearily predictable - that the minister should choose to attack a classical-music institution. She wouldn't dare attack a concert by a rap artist for failing to appeal to the vast majority of British listeners for fear that it might lose her votes. We classical musicians resent having the art that we love assigned to one particular class of society. It is neither the players nor the promoters - and certainly not the music itself - who are responsible for this; it is a position thrust upon us by the mindless twitterings of people who understand absolutely nothing about music.
Steven Isserlis, London

Poor show for using a picture of a bunch of white, mainly male, black-tied punters with the caption "the audience at the Royal Opera House" (All white on the night?, G2, March 5). I always sit in the stalls, often wearing jeans. This is probably a gala evening and so not repesentative of "the audience".
Ciarán O'Meara, London

Margaret Hodge's attack is ill-informed. The BBC has significantly widened the range of music in the Proms each year and the audiences it attracts, but it remains first and foremost a festival of western classical music and probably the most accessible one in the world, of which our culture minister should be proud. The Notting Hill carnival is a wonderfully vibrant celebration of street performance, music and costume reflecting another aspect of British life. Neither is diminished by the fact that its appeal is only to a section of the community.

Events at the Albert Hall this year include not just the party high-jinks of the last night of the Proms (unrepresentative incidentally of the Proms as a whole), but concerts of Asian music, jazz, world music, rock and pop, ballet, circus, celebrations by the Sikh community, and performances by schoolchildren from every kind of background. The essence of culture is its diversity and distinctive quality, and the essential British value that Margaret Hodge seems to have forgotten is liberty: our freedom to enjoy and participate in whatever form of cultural expression we choose.
David Elliott, chief executive, Royal Albert Hall

I don't always agree with Margaret Hodge, but The Last Night of the Proms demeans the world class festival of music that has gone before and denigrates British classical music and composers. It retained Rule Britannia last year, ignoring appeals that in the bicentenary of the abolition of the slave trade it was a gross anachronism.
Dr Graham Ullathorne , Chesterfield, Derbyshire

First, Margaret Hodge seems to think that the kind of people who attend the Proms - middle-class, law-abiding, mostly employed, culturally engaged - are not good examples of British identity. Second, she thinks that Henry VIII - an English, not British, king - is.
Iain Hill, Glasgow

Henry did quite a bit of separating, as we know, but not of state and religion - indeed, quite the opposite. The Acts of Submission and Supremacy established the king as governor of the church.
John Stilwell, Penzance, Cornwall