The unimportant news thread

[JBS]

Antifa activist attacks a migrant detention center, is killed by police
https://www.foxnews.com/us/washington-man-killed-at-ice-detention-center-manifesto

I suspect the man, and his antifa admirers, did not think his plan through very well.  Since if he had succeeded in burning it down,  he would have killed mostly migrants.

[greg]

I suspect the man, and his antifa admirers, did not think his plan through very well.

Which describes one of the biggest root problems they have- either they don't understand implications of their actions or they really are suicidal.

Of course i already saw an article from a mainstream site downplaying it.

[drogulus]

Which describes one of the biggest root problems they have- either they don't understand implications of their actions or they really are suicidal.

Of course i already saw an article from a mainstream site downplaying it.

     The Unibomber wrote a manifesto, too. I don't know whether it was downplayed or not, or even who the "they" is for either one.

     I see an antifa group says this guy is a martyr. I didn't know any such group endorsed suicide by cop.

     

[greg]

By "they" I mean Antifa and all the extremists who want to use mob rule to take away free speech.

[drogulus]

By "they" I mean Antifa and all the extremists who want to use mob rule to take away free speech.

     You'll lose freedom of the press first. That's how it's done. The mob in power is the dangerous one, because they will do it if they can.

[greg]

     You'll lose freedom of the press first. That's how it's done. The mob in power is the dangerous one, because they will do it if they can.

You mean like the big tech companies that are trying their best to censor centrists and conservatives?

[SimonNZ]

Antifa activist attacks a migrant detention center, is killed by police
https://www.foxnews.com/us/washington-man-killed-at-ice-detention-center-manifesto

I suspect the man, and his antifa admirers, did not think his plan through very well.  Since if he had succeeded in burning it down,  he would have killed mostly migrants.

I personally wouldn't be surprised to learn that the current version of "Antifa" is a click-bait invention of Fox with paid agents provocateurs. Oh how they love to love them and drum up the fear, even though as far as I can tell their numbers are at best in double digits. But more importantly I've never read anyone on the left in any forum I visit who knows anyone who knows anyone who knows any one of them. More importantly still they are utterly unsupported by any of the supposedly "extreme" Democrats.

I'm sorry this person was able to find some crazy use for this nonsense in planning his suicide.

[Muzio]

Trump for the win!

[Ken B]

I personally wouldn't be surprised to learn that the current version of "Antifa" is a click-bait invention of Fox with paid agents provocateurs. Oh how they love to love them and drum up the fear, even though as far as I can tell their numbers are at best in double digits. But more importantly I've never read anyone on the left in any forum I visit who knows anyone who knows anyone who knows any one of them. More importantly still they are utterly unsupported by any of the supposedly "extreme" Democrats.

I'm sorry this person was able to find some crazy use for this nonsense in planning his suicide.

Check out Keith Ellison and antifa.

[SimonNZ]

Trump for the win!

Er, no. The Dems were arguing among themselves, but now they have something they all agree on and are united. And Trump looks like the racist prick he is and the Rs look spineless.

Is this "winning"?

[Ken B]

Er, no. The Dems were arguing among themselves, but now they have something they all agree on and are united. And Trump looks like the racist prick he is and the Rs look spineless.

Is this "winning"?

Er, not so fast.

The unity hurts the Dems. AOC is the most recognized dem amongst the undecided, and her popularity there is very low. I saw one poll showing her at 22% in that group. If she or Omar become the face of the party the Democrats will be in real trouble. Pelosi was trying to avert that before this, and now it will be harder. So this "unity" — not ideological unity justhomogenization of the message — really is a gain for Trump.

Trump looks like an asshole? Is this new? Has he ceded any of the high respect previously widely held for him? I don't think so. A slice off a cut loaf. Now maybe these particular tweets will resonate more with moderates over time, and hurt him. I have seen a lot of commentary to that effect. But I doubt it, because the umbrage I have seen so far is based on misrepresentations of the tweets. Such as the one I implicitly relied on above, that AOC was referred to. Plainly the words of the tweets exclude her.

So I think Adams is premature. He might be wrong. But he is not obviously wrong. He is certainly not "Er, no" wrong.

[SimonNZ]

Well.. I don't understand the local hostility to AOC but do see that its there, but I don't see unity against racism as hurting them. And I don't see this as making her or the four "the face of the party".

Also: what the hell happened to Scott Adams? Trump's chaos makes Dilbert's boss look just slightly inefficient. He also can't be a chess player: those aren't Trump's "pawns".

[Ken B]

Well.. I don't understand the local hostility to AOC but do see that its there, but I don't see unity against racism as hurting them. And I don't see this as making her or the four "the face of the party".

Also: what the hell happened to Scott Adams? Trump's chaos makes Dilbert's boss look just slightly inefficient. He also can't be a chess player: those aren't Trump's "pawns".

Well this is one of the things that amuses me, people who like Trump/AOC are unable to see why others dislike AOC/Trump. But the single politician most like trump is AOC, and the single politician most like AOC is Trump. Two of our greatest attention-whores.

Adams is worth paying attention to, at least once in a while. He is one of the few commenters who often makes original points that I hadn't thought of. A useful hypothesis generator. Sometimes he is convincing, and sometimes I am sure he is punking me.

[SimonNZ]

Well this is one of the things that amuses me, people who like Trump/AOC are unable to see why others dislike AOC/Trump. But the single politician most like trump is AOC, and the single politician most like AOC is Trump. Two of our greatest attention-whores.

Oy. I certainly can't agree with you there. Alike in terns of provocative Twitter presence perhaps but couldn't be more unalike in every other respect . I can see why many might disagree with her positions but the animosity that Trump generates by being just his disgusting self seems to come to her by being yet another Fox bogeyman and all the disinformation that comes with that.

[SimonNZ]

So I think Adams is premature. He might be wrong. But he is not obviously wrong. He is certainly not "Er, no" wrong.

I should probably add that my "Er, no" was to Muzio. Though I'm also happy to give it to Adams' use of "Checkmate!", whatever other point he is trying to make (which you articulate better than he does).

[greg]

I personally wouldn't be surprised to learn that the current version of "Antifa" is a click-bait invention of Fox with paid agents provocateurs.

Maybe you should watch videos where people go to the streets and (try to) interview them...

if they are paid agents, that would technically be a conspiracy, so while not impossible, I seriously doubt it.

Technically they are just anarcho-communists (I'm not an expert on that, so will stop there).

I happened to stumble on a facebook page of someone saying they are part of Antifa... what stuck out was she wrote (worded different, but this was the message): "You people claim you aren't alt-right when you are criticizing us... so you are alt-right." This is the problem here. No logic and all tribalism. And anyone who doesn't see what is is wrong with that statement might also be part of the problem. Anyone who disagrees with them is going to be dehumanized by being called a "Nazi."

[drogulus]

You mean like the big tech companies that are trying their best to censor centrists and conservatives?

     I find this terribly naive. People throw out the word censorship a lot for things that aren't that. Does GMG censor me? I hope it does what weak thinkers would call censorship. I've seen them do it.

     As for censorship of conservatives, if it's part of conservatism today to say vile things that are not allowed on private platforms, that is not censoring conservatism. That's having standards people who call themselves conservatives wish to violate.

     

Maybe you should watch videos where people go to the streets and (try to) interview them...

if they are paid agents, that would technically be a conspiracy, so while not impossible, I seriously doubt it.

Technically they are just anarcho-communists (I'm not an expert on that, so will stop there).

Anyone who disagrees with them is going to be dehumanized by being called a "Nazi."

    The people they fight are NAZIs, the people they disagree with are all kinds. Anyway they aren't in the government, Trump is.

[JBS]

I personally wouldn't be surprised to learn that the current version of "Antifa" is a click-bait invention of Fox with paid agents provocateurs. Oh how they love to love them and drum up the fear, even though as far as I can tell their numbers are at best in double digits. But more importantly I've never read anyone on the left in any forum I visit who knows anyone who knows anyone who knows any one of them. More importantly still they are utterly unsupported by any of the supposedly "extreme" Democrats.

I'm sorry this person was able to find some crazy use for this nonsense in planning his suicide.

I think our own amw has mentioned knowing people who know them. *But there are various degrees of Antifa, the most noxious and violent seem to be on the West Coast, specifically this Portland group and another that seems to be connected to Berkeley.

The antiNazi demonstrators in Charlottesville iirc called themselves antifa. They certainly were not violent.

And you are very correct about how no Democrar supports them. Of course that does not keep Fox and the GOP from claiming they do.

*eta: in this post
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26377.msg1221967.html#msg1221967

[Karl Henning]

Trump for the win

Sweet pom poms you wave

[greg]

I find this terribly naive. People throw out the word censorship a lot for things that aren't that. Does GMG censor me? I hope it does what weak thinkers would call censorship. I've seen them do it. 

I mean, maybe you have a different definition of the word? Moderators here can censor others on GMG, it's just not as big of a deal as other platforms because it's small and no one makes a living by posting.

Problem is that everyone uses the big social media platforms- youtube, facebook, twitter, etc. and it's a big part how individuals can make money and spread their thoughts. So being banned just for expressing opinions really is a big deal if it's lopsided on whatever ideology it is.

As for censorship of conservatives, if it's part of conservatism today to say vile things that are not allowed on private platforms, that is not censoring conservatism. That's having standards people who call themselves conservatives wish to violate.

Two things here:
1) "Vile" is a completely subjective term. You can't just censor someone because what they say is "vile." Anything can be "vile." Often, simple facts and logic are thought of as "vile." Truth is being drowned out because the far left is obsessed with "shutting them down."

I can't think of anyone on the right that wants to "shut down" the opposition. They are rather more open to debate. 



2) As for the real examples of people online who I've followed which happen to be anywhere between moderate liberal to moderate conservative stance, none of the instances of them being banned or demonitized or whatever is justified.

The people they fight are NAZIs, the people they disagree with are all kinds. Anyway they aren't in the government, Trump is.

Who are the Nazis?
And it's more like the people they fight are all kinds... of people who simply disagree with them. Like Andy Ngo, the gay asian journalist that they ganged up on and put in the hospital.

And you are very correct about how no Democrar supports them. Of course that does not keep Fox and the GOP from claiming they do.

It's probably suspected because they share a lot of similar values, just that they may be more extreme. And that's where the line is drawn.

Just like a lot of people who see normal conservatives as Nazis... both are wrong, people just need to make a distinction between moderate and extremists.