The unimportant news thread

[SimonNZ]

It frightens me that this is how you get your news. This is exactly like 71db's uncritical devotion to Kyle Kulinsky, and his acceptance of that as "news"..

They're like midnight truckers ranting into their C'B. radios to whoever might be listening.

[SimonNZ]

sigh...

50% of U.S. Teens Are Getting Their News From YouTube, But Not From News Organizations
Common Sense and SurveyMonkey found that celebrities, influencers and personalities were their sources more often

[greg]

It frightens me that this is how you get your news. This is exactly like 71db's uncritical devotion to Kyle Kulinsky, and his acceptance of that as "news"..

They're like midnight truckers ranting into their C'B. radios to whoever might be listening.

So getting news from other online articles and sources that are close as primary as you can get, like Twitter, is bad?

Guess I gotta have news filtered by big daddy Fox, CNN, MSNBC?... because if they don't report on it, it never happened!

[Ratliff]

So getting news from other online articles and sources that are close as primary as you can get, like Twitter, is bad?

Guess I gotta have news filtered by big daddy Fox, CNN, MSNBC?... because if they don't report on it, it never happened!

That is not a primary source. That is a fringe person with little or no direct knowledge ranting about another fringe group.

When I evaluate I try to rely on real primary sources. When I want to know if the Trump economy is good I look at economic data and my own experience, not claims by Trump or by commentators on the right or the left. When I want to think about climate change I look at scientific reports or articles which concisely summarize scientific reports, not statements by political groups on either side. When I compare with I see on social media with primary sources, I conclude that what you will find on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube is essentially a torrent of shit.

[Karl Henning]

That is not a primary source. That is a fringe person with little or no direct knowledge ranting about another fringe group.

When I evaluate I try to rely on real primary sources. When I want to know if the Trump economy is good I look at economic data and my own experience, not claims by Trump or by commentators on the right or the left. When I want to think about climate change I look at scientific reports or articles which concisely summarize scientific reports, not statements by political groups on either side. When I compare with I see on social media with primary sources, I conclude that what you will find on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube is essentially a torrent of shit.

Harsh, but fair.

[greg]

That is not a primary source. That is a fringe person with little or no direct knowledge ranting about another fringe group.

When I evaluate I try to rely on real primary sources. When I want to know if the Trump economy is good I look at economic data and my own experience, not claims by Trump or by commentators on the right or the left. When I want to think about climate change I look at scientific reports or articles which concisely summarize scientific reports, not statements by political groups on either side. When I compare with I see on social media with primary sources, I conclude that what you will find on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube is essentially a torrent of shit.

It is a primary source. The second video was showing actual footage from protests on Twitter. It was also about Twitter posts from the people at the protests involved. I suppose that is not enough. Probably I have to be there at the protests as well.

Also, are you seriously referring to Tim as "fringe?" Or am I getting confused?

Obviously you've never seen a single one of his videos or read the comments yet you have an opinion about him? So the "milquetoast fence sitter" as he's always called, who refuses to vote for Trump, whose tagline is "it's complicated," and is generally mildly liberal (as he has stated values he holds which are on the liberal side), is now "fringe." Lol, that's a first.

[greg]

Anyone remember Mattress Girl? The false rape accuser?

Nowadays she's more conservative, because she found a guy she liked and is more libertarian nowadays.

The most remarkable part of the story, though perhaps not the most surprising, is that Sulkowicz says she didn't even know a conservative until last year.

"As I became more and more feminist," she told The Cut. "I think I got to a point where I was literally just straight up hating men. I just hated men, I wished all men would die."

I kinda figured the her whole strategy wasn't very sustainable. 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/how-mattress-girl-changed-her-mind

https://pluralist.com/emma-sulkowicz-dated-conservative/

[SimonNZ]

Anyone remember Mattress Girl?

No.

You say you don't want anyone to make assumptions about you, but you're clearly obsessed with this particular narrative.

[greg]

No.

You say you don't want anyone to make assumptions about you, but you're clearly obsessed with this particular narrative.

Sure. It's all I ever think about.

btw, keep supporting #MeToo and the other one, if you support that one (#believeallwomen), with mattress girl in mind. It will feed your soul.

[Ratliff]

It is a primary source. The second video was showing actual footage from protests on Twitter. It was also about Twitter posts from the people at the protests involved. I suppose that is not enough. Probably I have to be there at the protests as well.

Also, are you seriously referring to Tim as "fringe?" Or am I getting confused?

It is a person obsessing about a tiny fringe group (the antifa) who may or may not be giving a questionable justification for a protest of a homeless camp cleanup. That is fringe.

This is the information I have collected about homeless encampments in California.

1) Statistics provided by the state of California indicate the number of homeless has increased substantially in recent years.
2) I see substantially more homeless in my small California city in recent years.
3) A study by USC indicates that a majority of homeless first become homeless while holding full time jobs - common reasons for become homeless are dramatic rent increase, loss of housing due to ending of relationship, loss of housing due to escape from abusive relationship, poor credit history resulting in denial of rental lease applications even when they could pay.
4) Statistics provided by the state of California showing the number of apartments that meet the definition of "affordable" is decreasing due to conversion/replacement with luxury housing.
5) In my small California city I see modest dwellings being replaced by or renovated to luxury units.
6) The unit across the street, which used to have two units rented by blue-collar workers and students, has now been bought by an out-of-town person has renovated to use one unit as his weekend place and other unit as a luxury rental with dramatically higher rent.

Conclusion - the primary cause of homelessness is the fact that there are fewer dwellings than people who need dwellings. The number of homeless is set by economics, not by people who are "lazy," "have chosen the homeless lifestyle."

On my local "nextdoor" site (a sort of local facebook) long time local residents seem to believe the theory that the mayor has a plan to destroy the city by attracting homeless from all over the country, by instructing police to coddle the homeless. This is the "social media" answer. 

[greg]

It is a person obsessing about a tiny fringe group (the antifa) who may or may not be giving a questionable justification for a protest of a homeless camp cleanup. That is fringe.

"Obsessing"- dramatic word choice.
"Fringe," sure, if you want to stretch the word fringe to mean nearly anything. 

I'm obsessed with music. Guess I'm music fringe? And if it's just for politics, can someone a centrist be fringe? I guess there may exist extreme centrists who think all of the non-centrists should die, so yeah, maybe.

This is the information I have collected about homeless encampments in California.

1) Statistics provided by the state of California indicate the number of homeless has increased substantially in recent years.
2) I see substantially more homeless in my small California city in recent years.
3) A study by USC indicates that a majority of homeless first become homeless while holding full time jobs - common reasons for become homeless are dramatic rent increase, loss of housing due to ending of relationship, loss of housing due to escape from abusive relationship, poor credit history resulting in denial of rental lease applications even when they could pay.
4) Statistics provided by the state of California showing the number of apartments that meet the definition of "affordable" is decreasing due to conversion/replacement with luxury housing.
5) In my small California city I see modest dwellings being replaced by or renovated to luxury units.
6) The unit across the street, which used to have two units rented by blue-collar workers and students, has now been bought by an out-of-town person has renovated to use one unit as his weekend place and other unit as a luxury rental with dramatically higher rent.

Conclusion - the primary cause of homelessness is the fact that there are fewer dwellings than people who need dwellings. The number of homeless is set by economics, not by people who are "lazy," "have chosen the homeless lifestyle."

On my local "nextdoor" site (a sort of local facebook) long time local residents seem to believe the theory that the mayor has a plan to destroy the city by attracting homeless from all over the country, by instructing police to coddle the homeless. This is the "social media" answer.

Um, I don't disagree with any of this. And not really getting why these points are made in response to the video. But I do appreciate the information. Obviously this stuff is a problem.

The whole summary of the video (and this happened previously without the physical protests, just online complaints) is that people are trying to clean up the city and radical political people are, instead of helping out to make their city a nicer place, protests and accuses them of racism and against homeless people... maybe something was said secretly? Probably not. But the irony is how the "anti-racists" immediately think of race when people are cleaning up trash, almost like a Freudian slip (Antifa being largely consisting of white people).

This is exactly like 71db's uncritical devotion to Kyle Kulinsky, and his acceptance of that as "news"..

Revisiting this.
I'm just wondering, do you think most people can't think for themselves? Is that why you find news outside of corporate media to be unacceptable? Are you authoritarian or libertarian?
(just trying to understand the psychology along this train of thought)

Tim's videos are offering criticisms of existing articles/news. Most people will read an article and either criticize it or they won't- so that's either 1 or 2 perspectives. I will always question his commentary, so that's 3 perspectives- the article, mine, and his. I mean... is that supposed to be a bad thing? Or is fewer perspectives better? (it certainly is better for directing one's self, but definitely not better for discovering truth)

[SimonNZ]

Guess I gotta have news filtered by big daddy Fox, CNN, MSNBC?... because if they don't report on it, it never happened!

I don't watch Fox or CNN or MSNBC*, nor have I told you to.

*unless linked to, or I'm looking to see how something got reported in various places.

Revisiting this.
I'm just wondering, do you think most people can't think for themselves? Is that why you find news outside of corporate media to be unacceptable? Are you authoritarian or libertarian?
(just trying to understand the psychology along this train of thought)

Tim's videos are offering criticisms of existing articles/news. Most people will read an article and either criticize it or they won't- so that's either 1 or 2 perspectives. I will always question his commentary, so that's 3 perspectives- the article, mine, and his. I mean... is that supposed to be a bad thing? Or is fewer perspectives better? (it certainly is better for directing one's self, but definitely not better for discovering truth)

I've never said "news outside of corporate media is unacceptable"

When your Tim said the leftist corporate media had "smeared" that guy, did you follow up to see if that was accurate? Or to see if the string of assumptions he made about the motives of the protesters was accurately reported?

Three perspectives? Tim was presenting one subject's view with uncritical acceptance, and you were offering it here with uncritical acceptance.

I don't know if the Baltimore Sun is what you call "left" or "corporate", but read this and tell me if you think its a "smear", or if you think Tim's sarcastic laughter and boiling outrage is still justified:

We assume it was pure motives that led a Trump supporter to launch a cleanup in Cummings' district, right?

I'm still wanting to get info about that Republican do-gooder's "March Against Sharia", whatever the hell that was.

[greg]

I don't watch Fox or CNN or MSNBC*, nor have I told you to.

*unless linked to, or I'm looking to see how something got reported in various places.

I've never said "news outside of corporate media is unacceptable"

When your Tim said the leftist corporate media had "smeared" that guy, did you follow up to see if that was accurate? Or to see if the string of assumptions he made about the motives of the protesters was accurately reported?

Three perspectives? Tim was presenting one subject's view with uncritical acceptance, and you were offering it here with uncritical acceptance.

I don't know if the Baltimore Sun is what you call "left" or "corporate", but read this and tell me if you think its a "smear", or if you think Tim's sarcastic laughter and boiling outrage is still justified:

We assume it was pure motives that led a Trump supporter to launch a cleanup in Cummings' district, right?

I'm still wanting to get info about that Republican do-gooder's "March Against Sharia", whatever the hell that was.

Many of his videos are commenting on silly articles and tearing them apart, so that's two perspectives automatically. Maybe the one I posted is not a great reprentative of this.

I'd say it's a very common format. It's nothing like talk radio where people just spew their opinions or whatever. These types of videos will show you the original article for you to read (usually by leftist writers) and contend every point. Mostly disagreeing but they will agree with some points usually. And I may disagree with their critique sometimes. So that's three perspectives. Just because I agree with Tim on some things doesn't mean I'm not critical of him in general. Most of his audience just complains about him nonstop, which is how it should be rather than living in a safe space bubble where your ideas are never challenged.

Following up with the motives of the protesters might be tricky since Antifa doesn't talk to people and try to stay anonymous. I've seen videos of people trying to interview them on other channels and it always happens. Tim used to go to protests like this for field reporting and such but not nowadays.

He mentioned a great point in a precious video: no, the motives aren't pure. But that doesn't matter.

If your way of fighting the opposition is to clean the city, then that deserves much more respect than protesting and complaining and not doing anything. At least they did something to help everyone, political or not. Much better than the people who dress in black and try to beat people up as a mob.

March against Sharia sounds like a good idea. Indirectly great for LGBT.

[SimonNZ]

Did you read the Baltimore Sun piece?


(also: if the idea behind March Against Sharia is that Muslim immigrants are trying to upend American laws and impose their own, then its completely racist and deserves to be protested, and cast suspicion on anything else Captain Dogooder does)

[greg]

Did you read the Baltimore Sun piece?

Yeah, I'm not sure what the counterargument is supposed to be, if any. Some journalist sitting in their airconditioned office writing about this, "oh... but his motives may be political," while these guys are outside getting dirty and cleaning up the streets.

If Antifa, Bernie supporters, whoever, went outside and started cleaning up trash and identified to the world who they were, then anyone has to at least give them a thumbs up regardless of their political motives.

(also: if the idea behind March Against Sharia is that Muslim immigrants are trying to upend American laws and impose their own, then its completely racist and deserves to be protested, and cast suspicion on anything else Captain Dogooder does)

This is what I don't get- the jump to racism. Doesn't even make any sense at all. Pure ideological blindness that's filled with assumptions is my best guess.

If they all just said they don't like non-white people, then that would make sense, though I'd have to see the source for that first.

Arab countries have the right to go against US occupation... never would I imagine that being racist.

So are you okay with gays being stoned to death as part of Sharia Law?

[SimonNZ]

This is what I don't get- the jump to racism. Doesn't even make any sense at all. Pure ideological blindness that's filled with assumptions is my best guess.

Do you really need this explained?

Muslim immigrants in the US aren't trying to impose sharia law, so there's nothing to march against. Its just furthering a myth that makes them the objects of suspicion and hate and separates from the community theyre trying to be a part of.. Its ignorant and its racist.

I could add that the only people stoning gays to death in the US are the home-grown whites.

[greg]

Do you really need this explained?

Muslim immigrants in the US aren't trying to impose sharia law, so there's nothing to march against. Its just furthering a myth that makes them the objects of suspicion and hate and separates from the community theyre trying to be a part of.. Its ignorant and its racist.

You could make an argument for ignorant, but racist? You are literally just throwing that into the mix for no reason. Racist has to do with race- not wanting Sharia law doesn't equal hating non-whites, just because Muslims are usually non-whites. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

The fear is stemming from the Muslim influence on European countries. Mostly it is Sweden that is the concern, I think, because it's such a small country to begin with that bringing in so many immigrants could radically change the country.

But not so valid as far as the US is concerned, because there just aren't nearly enough of them to influence much at all. I'd say it's dumb more than anything, since Sharia law will never come to the US.

If they are protesting it to hate on it, that's fine IMO. I also don't like something that is that absurdly right-wing. (To me, it almost parallels sane left-wing liberals protesting or talking out against identity politics, or something like that- which you might be surprised is rather common).

I could add that the only people stoning gays to death in the US are the home-grown whites.

Ummm... ok... Seems like I would have heard about at least one case by now of that...

so gays are stoned to death in the US but not in Arab countries? Really?

[Ratliff]

...
This is what I don't get- the jump to racism. Doesn't even make any sense at all. Pure ideological blindness that's filled with assumptions is my best guess.

If they all just said they don't like non-white people, then that would make sense, though I'd have to see the source for that first.

Arab countries have the right to go against US occupation... never would I imagine that being racist.

So are you okay with gays being stoned to death as part of Sharia Law?

I don't have the patience to trace this back, but your analogy between muslim immigration to the U.S. and Arab countries having the right the go against US occupation identifies immigrants who are muslim as an occupation. You are expressing blatant racism. Almost everyone here is an immigrant from somewhere and muslims are no different than any others, bringing their cultural heritage to the American experience. All of the muslim immigrants to North America that I have encountered value the cultural plurality and democracy they find here at least as much as natural born citizens.

[greg]

I don't have the patience to trace this back, but your analogy between muslim immigration to the U.S. and Arab countries having the right the go against US occupation identifies immigrants who are muslim as an occupation. You are expressing blatant racism. Almost everyone here is an immigrant from somewhere and muslims are no different than any others, bringing their cultural heritage to the American experience. All of the muslim immigrants to North America that I have encountered value the cultural plurality and democracy they find here at least as much as natural born citizens.

This makes literally makes no sense to be classified as racism.

Watch what happens in the future when the word racism is thrown around so much to be virtually meaningless.

[SimonNZ]

One quickly googled definition of "racism":

"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

If the March Against Sharia is implying that Muslim immigrants in America have the same mindset and inclinations as the Taliban then that's racism by any standard definition.


Perhaps you should tell us how you define it.