The unimportant news thread

Started by Lethevich, March 05, 2008, 07:14:50 AM

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Florestan

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:21:30 AM
I do acknowledge that it is true that a lot of people work out of economic necessity.  That's called life.

I wonder, how many porn actresses actually work out of pleasure?  :)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Todd

#961
Quote from: Florestan on July 21, 2014, 10:49:52 AMUnless, and until, the USA as a whole outlaw porn altogether, any talk about prostitution being illegal and immoral will always seems to me as the top of hypocrisy.



This line of reasoning ignores two things.  First, it does not define pornography, unless you are going for the "I know it when I see it" standard.  Second, assuming an agreed upon definition is reached, what about all of the pornography that is created and shared by people without any financial reward?
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

ibanezmonster

Quote from: karlhenning on July 21, 2014, 11:14:44 AM
If you do not see the fallacy of your equation there, I doubt I can illuminate it for you.

The statement "Almost no one works because they want to" is also completely false;  I see people every day who want to work.

Take myself:  I want to compose, and it must be considered a type of work.  Of course, the job to which I report everty day is a different sort of job;  but it is also work I want to do.  Now, let me give you some credit for imagination:  what do you suppose are three possible reasons why I want to work, even at this job which is not composition?

Aye, just so.
Composing isn't work. It's fun.
You may have two other reasons besides money to work at your job, but would you work for free when you could be spending more time composing? You need to eat, after all.
And you may see people that love to work, but most people work because they have to. Probably 90% of the people I work with work because they have to- I know a few exceptions here and there that don't really need to, but it's a small minority.


I'm also interested in this idea being considered here that something such as verbal consent could still be considered rape. So if a woman says "yes" to sex (paid or unpaid), and doesn't really want to, is that rape? Just think of the potential problems of that. So if a woman wants to get back at you and claim you raped her because she didn't want sex with you (even though she said "yes"), and you get thrown in jail for rape, it's basically because you can't read someone's mind? That sounds like a really thorny issue there.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 11:26:39 AM
Composing isn't work. It's fun.

It is both.  The fact that I enjoy the activity does not negate that it is work, the application of thought, talent and time to a tangible result.  (If music be tangible.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:21:30 AM
You see, you are intellectually dishonest, or perhaps incapable of understanding what the word "most" means. 
Okay, since you like to nitpick so much, then "many." A lot of people work those jobs. Not to mention retail or restaurant work, which makes up a large percentage of jobs. Do you really think many people like making sandwiches, pulling in shopping carts or running a register all day for what is basically a non-living?



Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:21:30 AM
You are confusing your outlook with how other people view work.  What evidence do you have that most people (eg, >50% of all people, or >50% of all working people, take your pick) think work "just sucks in general"? 
Do you live in some sort of world full of happy workers?  ??? I wouldn't mind going there...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/10/unhappy-employees-outnumber-happy-ones-by-two-to-one-worldwide/

Florestan

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:26:17 AM


This line of reasoning ignores two things.  First, it does not define pornography, unless you are going for the "I know it when I see it" standard.

I am not a hypocrite, nor do I play around with words. Porn for me is when two or more people fuck, suck, lick and whatever, on purpose and knowingly, in front of a camera.  ;D ;D ;D 

Quote
Second, assuming an agreed upon definition is reached, what about all of the pornography that is created and shared by people without without any financial reward?

That is left to anybody's morality and conscience. If you fuck your wife and her highschool girlfriend and film and post it on the internet, that's your business.  ;D ;D ;D

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 11:34:22 AM
Do you really think many people like making sandwiches, pulling in shopping carts or running a register all day for what is basically a non-living?

I'm with you on that one,Most people hate their jobs. Todd too, but he will never admit it.   ;D ;D ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Florestan on July 21, 2014, 11:42:47 AM
I'm with you on that one,Most people hate their jobs. Todd too, but he will never admit it.   ;D ;D ;D
My dad always told me that most people don't like their jobs and he really hopes that I'd be one of the few that gets one I like. Of course, it has been years of work and stress to get a chance.

Just ~17+ months more when I graduate, and I'll very likely in that lucky minority.  :)

Todd

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 11:34:22 AMOkay, since you like to nitpick so much, then "many."


Many means something quite different from most.  It changes the nature of your statement.  Words are important.



Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 11:34:22 AMNot to mention retail or restaurant work, which makes up a large percentage of jobs. Do you really think many people like making sandwiches, pulling in shopping carts or running a register all day for what is basically a non-living?


Well, see, these jobs are not dangerous, generally speaking.  And they are not degrading in the way prostitution is.  Not even close.  You attempted, and continue to attempt, to establish a false equivalency.



Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 11:34:22 AMDo you live in some sort of world full of happy workers?

Let's take a quick look at some of that article you offer up as proof.

Overall, Gallup found that only 13% of workers feel engaged by their jobs. That means they feel a sense of passion for their work, a deep connection to their employe and they spend their days driving innovation and moving their company forward.

The vast majority, some 63%, are "not engaged," meaning they are unhappy but not drastically so. In short, they're checked out. They sleepwalk through their days, putting little energy into their work.

A full 24% are what Gallup calls "actively disengaged," meaning they pretty much hate their jobs. They act out and undermine what their coworkers accomplish.



And further:


It turns out the U.S. has some of the best numbers in the world, with 30% happy in their work, 52% feeling blah and 18% who hate their jobs. Those numbers are not what we would want but they are better than most places.


So I see 24% who hate their jobs worldwide, and 18% in the US.  Not well over half.  But even then, the nature of some of the questions listed are written in such a way that the results are sure to skew negative.  For instance:

5. My supervisor, or someone at work, seems to care about me as a person.
10. I have a best friend at work.



A caring boss?  (Meaning what, exactly?) A best friend at work?  What rubbish.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 11:47:09 AM
My dad always told me that most people don't like their jobs and he really hopes that I'd be one of the few that gets one I like. Of course, it has been years of work and stress to get a chance.

Just ~17+ months more when I graduate, and I'll very likely in that lucky minority.  :)

Have you read Emil Cioran? (A Romanian, BTW).
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on July 21, 2014, 11:42:47 AMTodd too, but he will never admit it.



I don't hate it, nor do I love it.  I've had better jobs, and worse jobs.  It's far better than blah, though.  Oh, yes, I also don't live in Fantasyland, where my parents feed and house me, and make everyone be nice to me to protect my feelings, so I recognize that some things at work will be unpleasant.  It is called Work, not Happy Fun Time.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Karl Henning

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:49:34 AM
A caring boss?  (Meaning what, exactly?) A best friend at work?  What rubbish.

Indeed.  One can like one's work (as I do), without losing sight of something my boss once said:  Work is not the place to find personal fulfillment.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:49:34 AM

Many means something quite different from most.  It changes the nature of your statement.  Words are important.




Well, see, these jobs are not dangerous, generally speaking.  And they are not degrading in the way prostitution is.  Not even close.  You attempted, and continue to attempt, to establish a false equivalency.



Let's take a quick look at some of that article you offer up as proof.

Overall, Gallup found that only 13% of workers feel engaged by their jobs. That means they feel a sense of passion for their work, a deep connection to their employe and they spend their days driving innovation and moving their company forward.

The vast majority, some 63%, are "not engaged," meaning they are unhappy but not drastically so. In short, they're checked out. They sleepwalk through their days, putting little energy into their work.

A full 24% are what Gallup calls "actively disengaged," meaning they pretty much hate their jobs. They act out and undermine what their coworkers accomplish.



And further:


It turns out the U.S. has some of the best numbers in the world, with 30% happy in their work, 52% feeling blah and 18% who hate their jobs. Those numbers are not what we would want but they are better than most places.


So I see 24% who hate their jobs worldwide, and 18% in the US.  Not well over half.  But even then, the nature of some of the questions listed are written in such a way that the results are sure to skew negative.  For instance:

5. My supervisor, or someone at work, seems to care about me as a person.
10. I have a best friend at work.



A caring boss?  (Meaning what, exactly?) A best friend at work?  What rubbish.

C'mon, Todd, will you give me/us a break?  ;D ;D ;D

According to the Romanian Statistical Institute, there's nothing wrong with Romania. Then please come live in Romania on the average salary, or on the average pension, and then let us know what the statistics are all about...  ;D ;D ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on July 21, 2014, 11:34:33 AMThat is left to anybody's morality and conscience. If you fuck your wife and her highschool girlfriend and film and post it on the internet, that's your business.



Your definition is almost exact enough, but the question is should pornography be banned in cases where it is not, in fact, it cannot be construed as prostitution; that is, if there is no monetary exchange, and the underlying act is legal, should pornography be banned?  If so, on what grounds?
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Florestan on July 21, 2014, 11:50:30 AM
Have you read Emil Cioran? (A Romanian, BTW).
Oh, that guy.  ;D

I believe I've read something by him before, but I'd really have to be in a certain mood to read his stuff lol.









Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:49:34 AM

Many means something quite different from most.  It changes the nature of your statement.  Words are important.




Well, see, these jobs are not dangerous, generally speaking.  And they are not degrading in the way prostitution is.  Not even close.  You attempted, and continue to attempt, to establish a false equivalency.



Let's take a quick look at some of that article you offer up as proof.

Overall, Gallup found that only 13% of workers feel engaged by their jobs. That means they feel a sense of passion for their work, a deep connection to their employe and they spend their days driving innovation and moving their company forward.

The vast majority, some 63%, are "not engaged," meaning they are unhappy but not drastically so. In short, they're checked out. They sleepwalk through their days, putting little energy into their work.

A full 24% are what Gallup calls "actively disengaged," meaning they pretty much hate their jobs. They act out and undermine what their coworkers accomplish.



And further:


It turns out the U.S. has some of the best numbers in the world, with 30% happy in their work, 52% feeling blah and 18% who hate their jobs. Those numbers are not what we would want but they are better than most places.


So I see 24% who hate their jobs worldwide, and 18% in the US.  Not well over half.  But even then, the nature of some of the questions listed are written in such a way that the results are sure to skew negative.  For instance:

5. My supervisor, or someone at work, seems to care about me as a person.
10. I have a best friend at work.



A caring boss?  (Meaning what, exactly?) A best friend at work?  What rubbish.
Okay, if you don't believe the article I found, find one that states that most people like their job and defend why it's more valid than this one.
Obviously, anything I find will be subject to overanalysis and won't be valid because it represents the opinion that isn't equal to your opinion, so I'll let you find something.

I see you like to twist my words and apply different meanings to them to try to evade the overall point that I'm making.

Todd

Quote from: karlhenning on July 21, 2014, 11:54:17 AMWork is not the place to find personal fulfillment.


I believe one's personal life is the suitable place for that.


The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: karlhenning on July 21, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
Work is not the place to find personal fulfillment.

Too bad it isn't. It should be. Karl Marx was dead right on this one.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 11:59:16 AM
I believe one's personal life is the suitable place for that.

I agree.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

ibanezmonster

There should be something fulfilling about spending 40-80 hours a week of your time on something (something fulfilling besides money)...

Ken B

Quote from: karlhenning on July 21, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
Work is not the place to find personal fulfillment.

Wise words. There are certainly exceptions, but a lot of woe flows from believing it should be, or that you are entitled it being so. I know one person, a prof, who says, I love my job but if they stop paying me I'll stop showing up.
(He's tenured so maybe he's already stopped showing up.  :))