The unimportant news thread

Started by Lethevich, March 05, 2008, 07:14:50 AM

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Todd

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 01:14:45 PMWhen a woman has no kids, well she needs in some way spend her time, so prositution can be legal.


WTF?
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

ibanezmonster

If a woman willingly decides to work as a prostitute rather than a dishwasher, she probably finds it less degrading than working as a dishwasher, anyways.

Henk

Just a bit of a ridiculous (funny) comment, I admit.

But I think some prostitutes make an art of their work, their personality grows. Only to take the step to go into prostitution is hard.

When you legalize many problems that exists when it would be illegal vanishes.

Todd

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 01:21:33 PMBut I think some prostitutes make an art of their work, there personality grows.


Whew.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 01:19:41 PM
If a woman willingly decides to work as a prostitute rather than a dishwasher, she probably finds it less degrading than working as a dishwasher, anyways.

Yes, and do you understand this? Would it also be your choice ;)? A dishwasher is a slave, a prostitute not necessary.

Henk

#1005
Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 01:23:19 PM

Whew.

Well I haven't been to prostitutes so I am guessing a bit. But you have been can I conclude? ;)

I think we are all guessing a bit for this reason. And only from this point of view people like you find it morally unacceptable, so from the viewpoint of men instead of prostitutes!

Todd

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 01:26:51 PMWell I haven't been to prostitutes so I am guessing a bit. But you have been can I conclude? ;)



Nope.  Just surprised that someone can write things more absurd than Greg when it comes to women.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 01:21:33 PM
When you legalize many problems that exists when it would be illegal vanishes.
It's weird how that works.


Quote"Women in prostitution generally describe it as paid rape. That's what if feels like to them," said Farley, who feels the study embodies a "reactionary worldview."
Notice the word "feels."







Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
Yes, and do you understand this? Would it also be your choice ;)? A dishwasher is a slave, a prostitute not necessary.
I would never prostitute myself, but I imagine that since I am a guy, it wouldn't be considered being raped, even if it is out of economic necessity and I don't enjoy it.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 01:30:05 PM


Nope.  Just surprised that someone can write things more absurd than Greg when it comes to women.
What is specifically "absurd?"

And where are those stats about people generally liking their job?

And is prostitution degrading "because it takes advantage of a woman's financial situation, and if she may be willing to prostitute, it is only out economic necessity?"

Henk

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 01:30:05 PM


Nope.  Just surprised that someone can write things more absurd than Greg when it comes to women.

You should take into consideration not the viewpoint of men but that of the prostitutes. They stand above the men who come visit them. Going to prostitutes is lower than being a prostitute I think for a prostitute. It's only a lower _subculture_ of society, but not necessary morally unacceptable.

Ken B

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 01:30:05 PM


Nope.  Just surprised that someone can write things more absurd than Greg when it comes to women.
The most absurd claim made here is yours, that you are able to tell women you have never met what does and does not degrade them, and are entitled to substitute your judgment for theirs in the matter.

Henk

#1011
Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 01:30:48 PM
I would never prostitute myself, but I imagine that since I am a guy, it wouldn't be considered being raped, even if it is out of economic necessity and I don't enjoy it.

Raping may appear, but how much of a percentage? I think a lot of men seek consolation, sexual pleasure, and this is not raping. If it's raping then things are different, but when can be spoken of raping? There can be some kind of violence included in sex, but this is not necessary raping. Raping is when a woman doesn't want, and the definition of a prostitute is that she always wants.

Ken B

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 01:39:12 PM
Raping may appear, but how much of a percentage? I think a lot of men seek consolation, sexual pleasure, and this is not raping. If it's raping then things are different, but when can be speaken of raping. There can be some kind of violence included in sex, but this is not necessary raping. Raping is when a woman doesn't want, and the definition of a prostitute is that she always wants.
And those who deny this distinction deny the prostitute the right to make the decision herself.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Ken B on July 21, 2014, 01:38:37 PM
The most absurd claim made here is yours, that you are able to tell women you have never met what does and does not degrade them, and are entitled to substitute your judgment for theirs in the matter.
Exactly. And telling a woman what is legal or illegal to do with their body when it doesn't harm the other party (the man).

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 01:43:02 PM
Exactly. And telling a woman what is legal or illegal to do with their body when it doesn't harm the other party (the man).

Well, I think a lot of women in prostitution have regrets about their decision (so there should be a sort of protection against it in society), not every personality is suited for it. She needs to love having sex with different men for example.

Todd

Quote from: Ken B on July 21, 2014, 01:38:37 PMThe most absurd claim made here is yours, that you are able to tell women you have never met what does and does not degrade them, and are entitled to substitute your judgment for theirs in the matter.



Complete nonsense.  The specific sentence I was referring to was But I think some prostitutes make an art of their work, their personality grows.  Perhaps you find this enlightening or true, or maybe even whimsical. 

Since you fancy yourself a evidence-based kinda guy, perhaps you can point to studies, or even a sizable number of testimonials, where prostitutes, and especially former prostitutes, extol the virtues of their profession, and say that it was a wise decision, and something that they would encourage other women to pursue.  I'd like to see the evidence.  I never made any claim that every prostitute doesn't enjoy what she does, or that there aren't some who don't feel degraded by what they do, but the evidence I have seen (from public health professionals, not feminists), and the information I have heard from those with some close knowledge of the profession - some police officers I know, so some informed anecdotal evidence - contradict the abstract musings posted here.  The notion that legalizing prostitution will make the profession much better - that is, change its very nature - is wishful thinking at its most wishful
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 02:00:06 PM
The specific sentence I was referring to was But I think some prostitutes make an art of their work, their personality grows. 
Normally you'd quote the specific sentence you're referring to when you are responding to it.

And you're asking for tons of statistics and such (yet again) when you still haven't answered my three questions.

Todd

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 02:03:59 PMNormally you'd quote the specific sentence you're referring to when you are responding to it.


I did in the original post responding to what he wrote.  Do try to keep up.

As to your questions, the first and third are profoundly stupid and not worth wasting time on, and with the second, to the extent a burden of proof exists, the burden of proof is yours, not mine; you proclaimed that most employees hate their jobs, and then offered a survey with some questions worded in such a way as to elicit a negative response.  I have also never made a claim that people love or especially like their jobs, just that they don't hate or significantly dislike them.  Being "checked out" in the poll provided may or may not be the same thing.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Ken B

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 02:00:06 PM


Complete nonsense.  The specific sentence I was referring to was But I think some prostitutes make an art of their work, their personality grows.  Perhaps you find this enlightening or true, or maybe even whimsical. 

Since you fancy yourself a evidence-based kinda guy, perhaps you can point to studies, or even a sizable number of testimonials, where prostitutes, and especially former prostitutes, extol the virtues of their profession, and say that it was a wise decision, and something that they would encourage other women to pursue.  I'd like to see the evidence.  I never made any claim that every prostitute doesn't enjoy what she does, or that there aren't some who don't feel degraded by what they do, but the evidence I have seen (from public health professionals, not feminists), and the information I have heard from those with some close knowledge of the profession - some police officers I know, so some informed anecdotal evidence - contradict the abstract musings posted here.  The notion that legalizing prostitution will make the profession much better - that is, change its very nature - is wishful thinking at its most wishful
When Greg asked in what sense specifically is prostitution degrading you called that a profoundly stupid question. It is not. It is a question about who gets to decide what is degrading to whom. Whose judgment matters. Your response arrogates the right to make this decision for women you have never met. There is no other way the question can be "profoundly stupid".

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 02:12:19 PM
As to your questions, the first and third are profoundly stupid and not worth wasting time on, and with the second, to the extent a burden of proof exists, the burden of proof is yours, not mine; you proclaimed that most employees hate their jobs, and then offered a survey with some questions worded in such a way as to elicit a negative response.  I have also never made a claim that people love or especially like their jobs, just that they don't hate or significantly dislike them.  Being "checked out" in the poll provided may or may not be the same thing.
So THAT is how you get out of a debate. I oughta try it sometime.  :)