The unimportant news thread

Started by Lethevich, March 05, 2008, 07:14:50 AM

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ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 03:00:51 PM
That's the situation in illegal prositution I bet, in highly degraded parts of cities with lots of crime.
Yeah, think of being beaten up by some weirdo while you're working, and you get arrested if you report it!  :-\

Henk

#1041
Todd has a point if he says that prostitution attracts crime. That's an unwanted situation.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
Todd has a point if he says that prostitution attracts crime. That's an unwanted situation.
Illegal or legal prostitution (or both)?

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 03:04:23 PM
Yeah, think of being beaten up by some weirdo while you're working, and you get arrested if you report it!  :-\

Good point.

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
Illegal or legal prostitution (or both)?

Both I think, but (much?) less when legal. It depends on a lot of things. I think indeed that you can arrange this that crime is minimalized.

Here in my city there are whores, legal, it's a bit spooky street..

Sammy

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 02:30:31 PM
Of course there may be some that do both.
What about the ones that choose to be prostitutes rather than dishwashers?

Round them up and do a survey.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Sammy on July 21, 2014, 03:14:52 PM
Round them up and do a survey.
This is impractical obviously, but my point is that it's their choice. They are choosing to be a prostitute- no one is making them.

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 03:28:00 PM
This is impractical obviously, but my point is that it's their choice. They are choosing to be a prostitute- no one is making them.

Shouldn't they be protected, or at least informed about such a life chancing decision? They can make it in moments of dispair for example.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 03:32:42 PM
Shouldn't they be protected, or at least informed about such a life chancing decision? They can make it in moments of dispair for example.
Sure, though, it seems like they would know what they're getting into and legalization would protect them, as well. As for regret, that's something anyone could have about anything...

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 03:36:47 PM
Sure, though, it seems like they would know what they're getting into and legalization would protect them, as well. As for regret, that's something anyone could have about anything...

Once you lose your intimicy as a whore, you loose it for your entire life. When a woman is in a vulnerable position and isn't able to make responsible decisions towards herself, then it's not a choice. And my point is that it should be a choice.

Dancing Divertimentian

Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Florestan

#1051
Quote from: Todd on July 21, 2014, 12:25:36 PM

Should all pornography be banned because your Christian morality dictates it should be?

My Christian morality dictates only that it is immoral. It says nothing about banning it.

Quote
  Should all law be based primarily on Christian morality?

Of course not. I've never ever said that.

Look, I'm not a prude, I've watched enough porn myself. My whole point is this: I simply cannot understand why prostitution is illegal and pornography is not, in one and the same country (or US state).
Prostitution is degrading, yes, and the fact that sometimes it is a choice doesn't change its character (people may very well choose to degrade themselves); but honestly, pornography involves far more degrading things to women than the car or wood quickie of a streetwalker. And basically, they are one and the same thing: selling sex for money. Legalizing one and banning the other is highly illogical.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 12:37:35 PM
Most jobs are degrading, in a way.

In which way, exactly?

Quote
So my point is that work is degrading, in general.

Buy a cotton plantation and some slaves and you'll never have to work again. ;D

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Quote from: Henk on July 21, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
A dishwasher is a slave

Do you realize just how ridiculous this sounds?

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 02:59:29 PM
And working on top of building may not be the wisest choice of profession, either. So?

Continuing with this fantasist false equivalency of "just another job, nothing to see here, folks."
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: Greg on July 21, 2014, 03:28:00 PM
This is impractical obviously, but my point is that it's their choice. They are choosing to be a prostitute- no one is making them.

The point which you consistently avoid -- and understandably, as it is in no way convenient to the opinion which you are determined to shield from any harm -- is that this "it's their choice" is contemptibly glib, does not even benefit from being naïve.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on July 22, 2014, 01:22:29 AM
Do you realize just how ridiculous this sounds?

I don't believe he does.

Certainly Greg did not.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on July 22, 2014, 12:41:46 AMLegalizing one and banning the other is highly illogical.



Depends on the rationale used, and if the rationale is based on empirical evidence.  From a public health and safety standpoint, attempting to curtail prostitution can make sense since there are far more non-pornography prostitutes, and there are no free speech implications - whatever one may think of those.  And incidentally, the California porn industry was forced to shut down last year or this year due to HIV infection, if memory serves, so public health can be a rationale for shutting the "official" industry down, if only temporarily. Of course, this does not mean that no porn was made during the period, especially in other areas.

Also, there is more than just a binary choice of legalization or banning.  There is also decriminalization.  That is an important distinction, and it prevents the nightmare scenario that has occurred several times in Germany where women were denied welfare benefits because they turned down work as prostitutes.  There's no good reason to throw people in prison for such behavior, either, and given that a lot of women (and presumably men) who engage in this profession may need assistance with other issues (abuse, drug addiction, etc), increasing resources available to assist with those issues may also be helpful.  The practice can never be stopped, and it certainly ought not to be promoted, but it can be addressed with less costly and less destructive policies.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: Todd on July 22, 2014, 05:56:46 AM
it prevents the nightmare scenario that has occurred several times in Germany where women were denied welfare benefits because they turned down work as prostitutes.

Did that really happen?  :o

Quote
The practice can never be stopped, and it certainly ought not to be promoted, but it can be addressed with less costly and less destructive policies.

Agreed.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Henk

#1059
Quote from: Florestan on July 22, 2014, 01:22:29 AM
Do you realize just how ridiculous this sounds?

To give a general defition: "Who has not 2/3 of the day for himself, is a slave." (Nietzsche, Human al too human)

I don't agree completely with this definition though.

When people can be selfsteering in their jobs then people can be happy (instead of being a slave). I think a dishwasher isn't, certainly not when he does it 8 hours or more a day.