The unimportant news thread

[Karl Henning]

A philosophical musing, is not a definition.

[Henk]

A philosophical musing, is not a definition.

Ok, not in absolute terms. Therefor I don't agree with it as I wrote. See extra comments in the edited post.

[Florestan]

To give a general defition: "Who has not 2/3 of the day for himself, is a slave." (Nietzsche, Human al too human)

See, that's your problem: too much Nietzsche, too little life. 

[ibanezmonster]

To give a general defition: "Who has not 2/3 of the day for himself, is a slave." (Nietzsche, Human al too human)

I don't agree completely with this definition though.

When people can be selfsteering in their jobs then people can be happy (instead of being a slave). I think a dishwasher isn't, certainly not when he does it 8 hours or more a day.

It's certainly not cotton-picking American slave labor, but that's what you'd call wage slavery.

Continuing with this fantasist false equivalency of "just another job, nothing to see here, folks."

To us it's not just another job, but there may be prostitutes who do think it's just another job. Do something you don't like and get paid. It may feel more normal than you think to them, especially if they're the type that sleeps around already.

[ibanezmonster]

The point which you consistently avoid -- and understandably, as it is in no way convenient to the opinion which you are determined to shield from any harm -- is that this "it's their choice" is contemptibly glib, does not even benefit from being naïve.

They can choose not to be a prostitute. End of story.

[Henk]

Parrèsia, Greg.

[Gurn Blanston]

They can choose not to be a prostitute. End of story.

Well, sadly, and not wanting to sound like a dick here, but you could choose to have a well-paying, satisfying job and be happily married too. Yet apparently you haven't. It's just a matter of choosing, isn't it?

[Todd]

Did that really happen?

Over the past few years I read a few stories from European news outlets that claimed that, but a quick scan online today shows that it may not be true.  (I assumed, if it did happen, that it would have been attributable to bureaucratic incompetence, rather than intentional policy.) 

[Todd]

When people can be selfsteering in their jobs then people can be happy (instead of being a slave).

See, there's the problem.  Employers don't hire people to self-steer; employers hire people to do specific jobs.  It is true that some jobs are more flexible than others.

On the plus side, increasing automation in a broader array of jobs will result in the need for less human labor, so a larger portion of the population will have 3/3rds of each day to do exciting things like ponder the lint in their navels.

[Ken B]

Why do people become prostitutes? Does anyone doubt that it's the high wages? High compared to what they could make otherwise.  Because some of you sound like you think there are other reasons.

[springrite]

On the plus side, increasing automation in a broader array of jobs will result in the need for less human labor, so a larger portion of the population will have 3/3rds of each day to do exciting things like ponder the lint in their navels.

Let's hope that's what they do, as it is harmless and passes time nicely. There are far worse alternatives which many eventually pick up.

[ibanezmonster]

Well, sadly, and not wanting to sound like a dick here, but you could choose to have a well-paying, satisfying job and be happily married too. Yet apparently you haven't. It's just a matter of choosing, isn't it?

You do know that acquiring a bachelor's degree takes time, right? So yeah, I've already chosen to have a well-paying, satisfying job, and I will have one.
As for marriage, doesn't really matter much to me whether that happens or not, but if it did, I'd make sure it were the right person. No one has to get married.

If someone feels like prostitution is a last resort option, there is always unemployment or whatever various welfare benefits out there if they can't find a second job (or a first one). Just do whatever anyone else does that wouldn't be marketable as a prostitute.

[springrite]

If someone feels like prostitution is a last resort option ...

It's almost never the first option, nor the last. Just one of...

[Todd]

Why do people become prostitutes? Does anyone doubt that it's the high wages?

What about the ones who are forced into it? 

[ibanezmonster]

What about the ones who are forced into it?

That's exactly what we are NOT talking about. That's rape, whether the client knows it or not.

We are talking about people who CHOOSE to be prostitutes.

[springrite]

What about the ones who are forced into it?

Good point.

For those who enter it on a voluntary basis, getting to the reward quickly (as opposed to minimum wage, for instance) is often one of the reasons. That is why often one way to get some women to get into prostitution "voluntarily" is to get them hood on drugs (often provided initially) so that they'd have a need for quick cash constantly to feed the habit.

[Todd]

We are talking about people who CHOOSE to be prostitutes.

What about a 16 year old - where 16 is the age of consent - who runs away from home, picks up a drug habit, and becomes a prostitute because the so-called "high wages" surpass the $7.25/hour she or he can make at <insert exploitative, evil TNC here>? 

[I see springrite already posted much the same thing, but I wanted to throw in the age thing.]

[Henk]

See, there's the problem.  Employers don't hire people to self-steer; employers hire people to do specific jobs.  It is true that some jobs are more flexible than others.

On the plus side, increasing automation in a broader array of jobs will result in the need for less human labor, so a larger portion of the population will have 3/3rds of each day to do exciting things like ponder the lint in their navels.

"Communicative selfsteering", Todd, a term introduced by knowledge theoricean Arnold Cornelis. It's a "logical pair". Specialists want to expand their life program and "hidden program", they think what the new possibilities are from their specialism, making the connection with the large communicative system. Selfsteering humans want to know the new possibilities from the new knowledge to excute in their selfsteering.

[ibanezmonster]

What about a 16 year old - where 16 is the age of consent - who runs away from home, picks up a drug habit, and becomes a prostitute because the so-called "high wages" surpass the $7.25/hour she or he can make at <insert exploitative, evil TNC here>? 

[I see springrite already posted much the same thing, but I wanted to throw in the age thing.]

Then that is one dumb 16 year old.
But besides that, just work at that $7.25/hour job like the rest of the world. Just because you have another option of a higher paying job doesn't mean you have to do it. You can probably get some sort of government benefits if you are of age to work and are unemployed. Maybe raising minimum wage would help, but that's besides the point. It's still their choice.

[Henk]

Then that is one dumb 16 year old.
But besides that, just work at that $7.25/hour job like the rest of the world. Just because you have another option of a higher paying job doesn't mean you have to do it. You can probably get some sort of government benefits if you are of age to work and are unemployed. Maybe raising minimum wage would help, but that's besides the point. It's still their choice.

Consider it's a mistake. No "second change"?