The unimportant news thread

Started by Lethevich, March 05, 2008, 07:14:50 AM

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Florestan

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 09:03:07 AM
Then that is one dumb 16 year old.

Oh yes, the world is full of 16-year-old female geniuses who have all the expertise needed to avoid falling into nasty tricks.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Ken B

Quote from: Todd on July 22, 2014, 08:57:33 AM


What about a 16 year old - where 16 is the age of consent - who runs away from home, picks up a drug habit, and becomes a prostitute because the so-called "high wages" surpass the $7.25/hour she or he can make at <insert exploitative, evil TNC here>? 

[I see springrite already posted much the same thing, but I wanted to throw in the age thing.]

Well if we are throwing in age of consent issues, the age at which you can make a contract is also relevant.  It is generally higher, and I think you can make colourable arguments about exploitation and informed consent with prostitutes (either sex) below that age.
But as I understand it you and Karl are making an argument you mean to apply to 30 year old women (as am I). I have no problem treating minors differently, but let's not muddy the waters. Just because we want one law for 16 years does not mean we need the same law for adults.

springrite

It is important to distinguish whether we are legislating morality or criminality. I have strong moral principles but I am against legislating it.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Florestan

Quote from: springrite on July 22, 2014, 09:12:33 AM
It is important to distinguish whether we are legislating morality or criminality.

I agree but how can we make that distinction? Criminalizing prostitution implies ipso facto a moral judgment.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Florestan on July 22, 2014, 09:09:11 AM
Oh yes, the world is full of 16-year-old female geniuses who have all the expertise needed to avoid falling into nasty tricks.
18 is usually the age of consent almost anywhere, anyways. Are 18 year olds old enough to make their own decisions?
I think most 16-18 year olds know what sex is and what money is. If they are tricked in some other sort of way, then that's not their fault. If it's a normal transaction, that's their (poor) choice.


Quote from: springrite on July 22, 2014, 09:12:33 AM
It is important to distinguish whether we are legislating morality or criminality. I have strong moral principles but I am against legislating it.
I feel this way. Morally wrong sure, but whether it should be legal/illegal is another story worth examining.

Henk

Quote from: springrite on July 22, 2014, 09:12:33 AM
It is important to distinguish whether we are legislating morality or criminality. I have strong moral principles but I am against legislating it.

Good point, but there's also the aspect of emancipation: protecting the weakests. Adversity isn't spread equally over humans.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 07:17:39 AM
They can choose not to be a prostitute. End of story.

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 08:54:21 AM
We are talking about people who CHOOSE to be prostitutes.

Which is to say, such a statistically small percentage of prostitutes, that building one's whole argument around this "ideal" minority is short-sighted and ghastly.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 09:17:23 AM
Are 18 year olds old enough to make their own decisions?

It depends. It should be decided on a case by case basis. I know people of 30 who can't make an informed choice.  ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Some eighteen-year-olds aren't capable of distinguishing differences in the matter of choice.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Henk

#1089
Quote from: karlhenning on July 22, 2014, 09:19:22 AM
Which is to say, such a statistically small percentage of prostitutes, that building one's whole argument around this "ideal" minority is short-sighted and ghastly.

Well, that's my point of view. Prositution as a subculture, without crime. Women who love to have sex with different men. Prostitution as an art, whereby it's about finding one's intimicy back again and again. And about getting trustful relations with their clients and also the ability to reject certain clients by having insight in human character.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: karlhenning on July 22, 2014, 09:19:22 AM
Which is to say, such a statistically small percentage of prostitutes, that building one's whole argument around this "ideal" minority is short-sighted and ghastly.
And how do you know that it is such a statistically small percentage?

Henk

Prostitution as a subculture is far more better than ending in porn-culture. And isn't pornculture legal?

Anyone who doesn't know the dimension in prostitution as I sketched in my previous reply, fails to judge rightly. It's why prostitution has it's positive attraction.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 09:32:25 AM
And how do you know that it is such a statistically small percentage?

Says the fellow who asserts that it is the rule.  You didn't read the paragraphs I posted, did you?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

springrite

Quote from: karlhenning on July 22, 2014, 09:38:03 AM
Says the fellow who asserts that it is the rule.  You didn't read the paragraphs I posted, did you?

Why bother to read if the reply has been readied before reading and regardless of what might be read?  ;)
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Florestan

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 09:37:03 AM
Anyone who doesn't know the dimension in prostitution as I sketched in my previous reply, fails to judge rightly.

And how come you know that dimension? How many prostitutes have you met and talked to? Two? Twenty? Two hundreds?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Henk

#1095
Quote from: Florestan on July 22, 2014, 09:40:39 AM
And how come you know that dimension? How many prostitutes have you met and talked to? Two? Twenty? Two hundreds?

I tried to find an other word for "know" but couldn't find.

Just throwing in some other viewpoints to consider.

springrite

Quote from: Florestan on July 22, 2014, 09:40:39 AM
And how come you know that dimension? How many prostitutes have you met and talked to? Two? Twenty? Two hundreds?

Suddenly realised I may be the authority on the subject here...
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Todd

Quote from: Ken B on July 22, 2014, 09:10:25 AMWell if we are throwing in age of consent issues, the age at which you can make a contract is also relevant.  It is generally higher, and I think you can make colourable arguments about exploitation and informed consent with prostitutes (either sex) below that age.


How does contract law apply to illegal activities?  And if one treats prostitution as employment, in jurisdictions that allow people to work as young as 14 or 15, why would prostitution be any different, if you are taking a legalistic approach?


Quote from: Ken B on July 22, 2014, 09:10:25 AMBut as I understand it you and Karl are making an argument you mean to apply to 30 year old women (as am I). I have no problem treating minors differently, but let's not muddy the waters. Just because we want one law for 16 years does not mean we need the same law for adults.


I'd like to see an age distribution for prostitutes.  Somehow I think a 30 year old person making a cool, rational choice to enter the profession is comparatively rare. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 09:43:13 AM
Just throwing in some other viewpoints to consider.

What's to consider in uninformed viewpoints based on zero expertise or evidence? Don't you see you make a fool of yourself big time with this attitude?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: springrite on July 22, 2014, 09:40:29 AM
Why bother to read if the reply has been readied before reading and regardless of what might be read?  ;)

There is that, too 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot