The unimportant news thread

Started by Lethevich, March 05, 2008, 07:14:50 AM

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springrite

"I am not paying for this because I am planning to have sex with you!"
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 11:11:52 AM
Interesting argument. Rape is not the right word however.
That's sorta the argument that people are making- that the definition of rape extends to that- that any monetary transaction that leads to sex is rape.
I guess you could make a case for it, but it gets into some bizarre and difficult territory.


Quote from: springrite on July 22, 2014, 11:13:46 AM
"I am not paying for this because I am planning to have sex with you!"
Exclaim that loud and clear! I'm not the type to buy people stuff, but I want to make sure that one day I'm not labeled a rapist.

springrite

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 11:18:29 AM
Exclaim that loud and clear! I'm not the type to buy people stuff, but I want to make sure that one day I'm not labeled a rapist.

That's the great thing about being a moralist. A moralist can make cheap honourable.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: springrite on July 22, 2014, 11:20:17 AM
That's the great thing about being a moralist. A moralist can make cheap honourable.
Hell yeah!  :D
Take a girl out on a date and don't buy her shit- if she asks, just reply, "I'm not a rapist, you weirdo!"  ;D

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
Hell yeah!  :D
Take a girl out on a date and don't buy her shit- if she asks, just reply, "I'm not a rapist, you weirdo!"  ;D

That should rarther be an immoralist's behaviour.

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
Hell yeah!  :D
Take a girl out on a date and don't buy her shit- if she asks, just reply, "I'm not a rapist, you weirdo!"  ;D

"Now I'm gonna fuck you!"  :o

Henk

So the conclusion can be drawn: buying a woman stuff is rather an act of love. Buying sex is that in a way also.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 11:28:43 AM
That should rarther be an immoralist's behaviour.
I refuse! I wanna be cheap! ;D



But that definition of rape can extend to some weird places. For example, if I married some nasty old lady that I disliked only because she was rich (and with marriage, obviously comes sex), would that make her a rapist? I mean, I'm not exactly rich right now, and if I were really poor, that could lead me out of poverty. (I'm not concluding at the moment that she is or isn't, just wondering because of the similarities).

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 11:41:28 AM
So the conclusion can be drawn: buying a woman stuff is an act of love. Buying sex is that in a way also.
Not sure... you can try to buy sex with someone without loving them.

springrite

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 11:41:28 AM
So the conclusion can be drawn: buying a woman stuff is rather an act of love. Buying sex is that in a way also.

Don't you love logic?  >:D
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Henk

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 11:41:51 AM
I refuse! I wanna be cheap! ;D



But that definition of rape can extend to some weird places. For example, if I married some nasty old lady that I disliked only because she was rich (and with marriage, obviously comes sex), would that make her a rapist? I mean, I'm not exactly rich right now, and if I were really poor, that could lead me out of poverty. (I'm not concluding at the moment that she is or isn't, just wondering because of the similarities).

Well from your point of view it's definitely prostitution. You make a distiction between men and women. Being raped as a man, it's a matter of money, being raped as a woman it's a matter about protesting to sex.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 11:47:30 AM
Well from your point of view it's definitely prostitution. You make a distiction between men and women. Being raped as a man, it's a matter of money, being raped as a woman it's a matter about protesting to sex.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here...

springrite

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 11:51:31 AM
I'm not quite sure what you mean here...
This finally provides an opportunity to end a fruitless discussion, I hope.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Henk

#1133
Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 11:42:51 AM
Not sure... you can try to buy sex with someone without loving them.

It's all a matter of trust and instinct to know whether there's affection or "raping". So a whore can avoid having sex, reject a client. I'm curious about if whores experience this, if they feel raped much or not. I think not, and then buying sex can be seen as a sign of affection.

Because the client pays money, he does efforts, the whore feels rewarded, the client feels this as well, and he gets something in return. The whores needs to bear some violent sex by a frustrated man maybe, but her role is usually to console, and keeps her dignity.

Henk


Ken B

Quote from: Todd on July 22, 2014, 09:45:30 AM

How does contract law apply to illegal activities? 

Huh? We are talking about whether the activity should be illegal.

The age at which you can enter a contract is as relevant as the age you mentioned, the "age of consent". Sex with someone under the "age of consent" is rape even if entered into willingly. The law says a sex act cannot be legally consented to before that age. Why logically must that be the same age that a contract for sex can be legally agreed to, or a prostitute hired. It seems to me plain that both minimum ages are relevant, since we are looking at issues around sex and contracts. If I need a driver's licence to drive and a passport to go to Mexico, then why is it odd to suggest I need both to drive to Mexico? We might logically say that sex can be consented to at 16 but prostitution cannot until 19 or 21.  There is no logical contradiction.

The age of contract corresponds roughly to our legal idea of a responsible adult as opposed to a minor. I think, age of consent aside, that there is a difference between the legal issues around 17 year old prostitutes and those around 30 year old prostitutes. Once again you are trying to argue that because I believe  prostitution should be legal for *adults* I must argue it should be legal for children.

Henk

#1136
Quote from: springrite on July 22, 2014, 11:56:02 AM
This finally provides an opportunity to end a fruitless discussion, I hope.

Fruitless, why so pessimistic?

But I agree, let's round it up.

NP:
Tina Turner - What's love got to do with it.

[asin]B000000WJR[/asin]

Todd

Quote from: Ken B on July 22, 2014, 12:04:03 PMWhy logically must that be the same age that a contract for sex can be legally agreed to


What is a "contract for sex", what would it look like, how would it be enforced, etc?  Do you envision a profession where service provider and client take the time to execute a written agreement?  (Maybe that's the case in Vegas, Amsterdam, etc, I don't know.)  A verbal agreement seems more than a bit difficult to enforce, and there is nothing to prevent a person from saying or writing "I swear, under penalty, I'm <insert minimum age here>", especially in this profession - unless rigorous background checks and documentation requirements are put in place.  That seems implausible in many jurisdictions.  I see little to no workable safeguards or value to a contract law argument.

Also, you can go on about a mythical 30 year old prostitute, but this ignores the less pleasant reality that many, and probably most, sex workers get their start at a much younger age, and for reasons that may render so-called "choice" a bit questionable.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Ken B

Quote from: Todd on July 22, 2014, 01:06:23 PM

What is a "contract for sex", what would it look like, how would it be enforced, etc?  Do you envision a profession where service provider and client take the time to execute a written agreement?  (Maybe that's the case in Vegas, Amsterdam, etc, I don't know.)  A verbal agreement seems more than a bit difficult to enforce, and there is nothing to prevent a person from saying or writing "I swear, under penalty, I'm <insert minimum age here>", especially in this profession - unless rigorous background checks and documentation requirements are put in place.  That seems implausible in many jurisdictions.  I see little to no workable safeguards or value to a contract law argument.

Also, you can go on about a mythical 30 year old prostitute, but this ignores the less pleasant reality that many, and probably most, sex workers get their start at a much younger age, and for reasons that may render so-called "choice" a bit questionable.

Todd you introduced the age of consent, as if it would necessarily be the case anyone who wanted to legalize prostitution wanted to do it for anyone above the age of consent, even that includes people most do not consider adult. It's a shoddy rhetorical trick.

I think adults should be free to choose who they have sex with, or why. That means I think prostitution should be legalized for adults. Who counts as adult? That's legally connected to the age of contract, and not the age of consent, as I have explained.

"Mythical 30-year-old prostitute"? They go into a holding pattern at 29? Vanish?