The unimportant news thread

Started by Lethevich, March 05, 2008, 07:14:50 AM

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Karl Henning

Who was wondering why there are so few women who participate here at GMG? . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Ken B

Quote from: karlhenning on July 22, 2014, 05:33:53 PM
Who was wondering why there are so few women who participate here at GMG? . . .
I quite agree. The idea that mature grown women should not be allowed to choose who they have sex with, or why, without policeman butting in is surely off-putting.

ibanezmonster

The only really good argument against legalizing prostitution is the potential for increase in human trafficking. (Then there is the counter-argument that if prostitutes are given enough legal protection and power, they won't have to worry about physical threats, etc.)

I was curious about responses to a few things.

How many people here there are in full support of illegalization of prostitution would still think that way if they were someone who is so disabled/physically scarred that the only way that they could ever have sex is through a financial transaction? Would you willingly remain a virgin your whole life because you think all prostitution is bad?

Also, if prostitution is an expression of male power through money leading to rape, there are other forms of power... for example, I knew someone who dated this really undesirable guy. I heard she only did because she felt bad for him. In other words, she felt coerced into dating/sex because she's nice and didn't want to feel like a jerk. So he basically had the power of being pathetic.  :P Is this guy a rapist?

What about two people I used to work with who were dating, and he bought her a $500 ring once- if this led her to have sex with him more times than she would have otherwise, and felt coerced into doing so because of the object of high monetary value, is this guy a rapist?

Ken B

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
The only really good argument against legalizing prostitution is the potential for increase in human trafficking. (Then there is the counter-argument that if prostitutes are given enough legal protection and power, they won't have to worry about physical threats, etc.)

I was curious about responses to a few things.

How many people here there are in full support of illegalization of prostitution would still think that way if they were someone who is so disabled/physically scarred that the only way that they could ever have sex is through a financial transaction? Would you willingly remain a virgin your whole life because you think all prostitution is bad?

Also, if prostitution is an expression of male power through money leading to rape, there are other forms of power... for example, I knew someone who dated this really undesirable guy. I heard she only did because she felt bad for him. In other words, she felt coerced into dating/sex because she's nice and didn't want to feel like a jerk. So he basically had the power of being pathetic.  :P Is this guy a rapist?

What about two people I used to work with who were dating, and he bought her a $500 ring once- if this led her to have sex with him more times than she would have otherwise, and felt coerced into doing so because of the object of high monetary value, is this guy a rapist?

I am more interested in those who supoort legalized abortion on the grounds "my body, my choice" but who would criminalize prostitution. "Your body, my veto."

ibanezmonster

Quote from: Ken B on July 22, 2014, 06:58:41 PM
I am more interested in those who supoort legalized abortion on the grounds "my body, my choice" but who would criminalize prostitution. "Your body, my veto."
I'm interested in the reasoning behind that, as well.

ibanezmonster

Out of curiosity, I looked up what radical feminists think of gay porn.
Basically, the argument is that the one taking is simulating a woman and the one giving it is the man, so it's wrong.  ???

Florestan

Quote from: Henk on July 22, 2014, 10:34:02 AM
And an immoralist also doesn't use those immoral tricks like you.

I beg your pardon? What is immoral, or tricky, in asking you to provide real-life support and evidence for your theory?

Quote
That's too low for him. An immoralist cannot be described as someone who like to trick or misuse other people. He want to go beyond morals, that's what he strives for in my view. This makes him feel proud, and he is immune for moral arguments, moral attacks.

Your view, or Nietzsche's?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Ken B on July 22, 2014, 05:46:44 PM
I quite agree. The idea that mature grown women should not be allowed to choose who they have sex with, or why, without policeman butting in is surely off-putting.

You cannot pretend that you missed my point.

People, male, arguing that we ought to legalize a practice which makes a woman's body a commodity (oh! and conveniently, an obvious distinction to make between prostitution and abortion).

Quote from: Greg on July 22, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
The only really good argument against legalizing prostitution is the potential for increase in human trafficking.

So how many women have you discussed this with?  Have the discussions taken place in person?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Henk

#1148
Quote from: Florestan on July 22, 2014, 09:58:57 PM
I beg your pardon? What is immoral, or tricky, in asking you to provide real-life support and evidence for your theory?

Your view, or Nietzsche's?

You lead me into your fyke (or "hoop net"). You did this earlier to me. And again, I never said it was a theory, I just throwed in some "viewpoints" as I said.

I can't give you a quote by Nietzsche about this, so it's my view (but influenced of course by Nietzsche). I feel however that you might be playing the same trick here again. :( No normal conversation possible between us it seems. You only ask about things every time, instead of reply in some fruitful way, that's no conversation, that's your fyke. And in the end you say: "I rest my case".

Now I won't reply to your next message anymore, would you reply.

Ken B

Quote from: karlhenning on July 23, 2014, 08:13:57 AM
You cannot pretend that you missed my point.

People, male, arguing that we ought to legalize a practice which makes a woman's body a commodity (oh! and conveniently, an obvious distinction to make between prostitution and abortion).


Very weak Karl. Anyone has the right to discuss what and what should not be legal, regardless of their sex. Perhaps you would say atheists cannot discuss if there should be prayer in school? And unless your photo deceives the stricture applies to you as well, yet here you are.

I am trying to be polite here but demanding credentials to offer an opinion is a way to avoid debate and shout down disagreement.

And to be clear, what makes *anyone's* body a commodity is their *choice* to offer it as one.  I want to respect that choice.




Florestan

Quote from: Henk on July 23, 2014, 08:47:45 AM
I never said it was a theory, I just throwed in some "viewpoints" as I said.

If only you could make a clear distinction between "theory" and "viewpoint"...

Quote
I can't give you a quote by Nietzsche about this, so it's my view (but influenced of course by Nietzsche).

If it were in my power, I would forbid anyone not married, not having a regular job and not having had sexual intercourse in the last 2 weeks from reading Nietzsche. He was a madman: driving crazy other people while in the process making them believe they are somehow superior to the species was, and apparently still is, his trademark.

Quote
You only ask about things every time

Well, forgive me for being an engineer, i.e. one accustomed to work with, and ask for, facts, data and evidence.

Quote
instead of reply in some fruitful way

In my dictionary "fruitful" is very different from "pontificating about" or "ranting".


Quote
Now I won't reply to your next message anymore, would you reply.

Romanians have a saying for that kind of attitude: I'll pack up my toys and leave the game;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on July 23, 2014, 10:05:17 AM
If it were in my power, I would forbid anyone not married, not having a regular job and not having had sexual intercourse in the last 2 weeks from reading Nietzsche. He was a madman: driving crazy other people while in the process making them believe they are somehow superior to the species was, and apparently still is, his trademark.

Whom the gods destroy, they first compel to read Nietzsche 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot


Ken B

Florestan
QuoteWell, forgive me for being an engineer, i.e. one accustomed to work with, and ask for, facts, data and evidence.

We are going to have to discuss transubstantiation some day, mon cher ami!  >:D :laugh: 8)

Florestan

Quote from: Ken B on July 23, 2014, 10:22:38 AM
Florestan
We are going to have to discuss transubstantiation some day, mon cher ami!  >:D :laugh: 8)

Any time you want. If I may ask, when was the last time you had communion?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

ibanezmonster

Quote from: karlhenning on July 23, 2014, 08:13:57 AM
So how many women have you discussed this with?  Have the discussions taken place in person?
That's not exactly how you get statistics.
It may be true that legalization leads to more human trafficking/forced prostitution. In that case, the only way it could have a chance at reducing that is a ton of worker protection.



ibanezmonster

QuoteA few weeks later an acquaintance told me she thought prostitution was a "woman's choice, and can be empowering."
It's a matter of perspective. In the situation where a man that has to pay money to get sex with a woman that can get sex for free, feminists still say that the man is exerting power over the woman because money is the power. Even if she can freely turn it down. Logic.

Ken B

Quote from: Florestan on July 23, 2014, 10:25:33 AM
Any time you want. If I may ask, when was the last time you had communion?

Never. I was never confirmed as an Anglican (that's Episcopalian to you Americans).  It was to happen when I was 13 but never did.

springrite

Quote from: Ken B on July 23, 2014, 10:50:01 AM
Never. I was never confirmed as an Anglican (that's Episcopalian to you Americans).  It was to happen when I was 13 but never did.

Lucky you!
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Henk

Quote from: Florestan on July 23, 2014, 10:05:17 AM
Romanians have a saying for that kind of attitude: I'll pack up my toys and leave the game;D

Are you by the way Romanian from descent? Just curious.