Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[Dundonnell]

Sadly, the Gramophone review of the new completion of his 9th symphony on ECM (which I got kind of excited about) was rather damning. Even the non-Schnittke coupling was dismissed rather curtly (and the justification sounds very reasonable to me - generic ECM-style choral music, who needs more of that?). Meh, I'll stick with symphony no.8 - no completion of the 9th could approach that, anyway...

I must say that the 'Gramophone' review coincided pretty much with what I thought of the two works. I found the 9th grey and uninteresting and I hated the coupling

[Lethevich]

Karl:

Difficult to describe (I must relisten to all his mature symphonies soon) but it has the deconstructed qualities of all late Schnittke (including symphony no.6 onwards) but with what I recall was a far greater (almost Romantic, albeit heavily modified) emotionalism than the previous two. It is almost passé to point harrowing qualities amongst late Schnittke, but the enormous slow movement in particular, the whisps of construction almost falling apart at a few points. Paradoxically, while it has a bizarre structure when examined on paper (most of the opening is a slow movement as well, punctuated by a brief scherzo before the enormous middle movement), it somehow feels cohesive - Schnittke never actually "gives up" at any point. As a consequence it is somehow not entirely doomish, although very draining. I should relisten to it before confirming that I actually think this, though, as these are years old impressions.

Dundonnell:

I feel more confident about skipping it now, thanks. What are your preferred Schnittke works?

[not edward]

The 8th is one of my favourite Schnittke symphonies, so I can try to describe it:

First movement: passacaglia that climaxes early, then slowly decays into frostier, icier, thinner scoring; highly atmospheric and superlatively orchestrated IMO (and I don't often like Schnittke's orchestration)
Second movement: brusque scherzo
Third movement: long slow movement, often alarmingly thin contrapuntally, alternating between chorales and long monody over a pedal point
Fourth movement: brusque scherzo
Finale: 90 seconds of an ascending Lydian (?) mode, clearly referencing the last pages of Peer Gynt

[Lethevich]

Thanks, Edward, that is much better described. It reads even more strangely structured than I recalled

[snyprrr]

Guess I'll have to buck the trend. Bad news first.

O-VER-RA-TED TO THEE MAXXX!!!

Can't stand the Piano Concerto, Piano Quintet, Piano Trio...wait, give me a minute, I'll come up with more. In the "so what" category I'll put the Cello Sonata (which I had 3-4 recordings of ). Piano music, violin sonatas, trifles, sextets, whatever, I just dismiss it altogether. I want to use the word "crappy."

I just find Schnittke totally annoying. I don't understand the love fest surrounding him, or, maybe I do. I know it was really hip to like him at one point. But everyone's fawning over the Piano Cto., and I HAVE TRIED, but this ode to a heart attack is probably my "most loathed" score (the man seems to have enshrined ALL his various heart attacks). And I couldn't care less about his suffering.

ok... is there more?... well, let's get on to the good news...

I have a nice Ivashkin cd of the cello works (on some obscure Russian-like label) as a companion to another Ivashkin disc of Russian cello rarities on the same label. I believe the label has 4 letters in the name. Then, OF COURSE, on any other Russian cello disc I have, whoomp, there it is! I just find it overrated...what's the big deal? And cello sonata No.2 is just too typical of his late style. Was Schnittke the first to... to do WHAT? Did he INVENT the "miserable" sound?

Anyhow, I always enjoyed the Chailly/Decca disc with the Sym. No.5. And I can enjoy some of the goofy concerto grossos. I'll admit to not hearing syms. 1-4, except 3-4 once long long ago.

However, Syms. 6-7 (BIS) are right up my alley. These two are unqualified successes in my mind. Still haven't heard No.8, but I assume it's as good as everyone says (waiting for a cheap amazon). But, I guarantee, that Schnittke No.8, when I get it, will be the "last" symphony I get by anyone, ever (Lord, please don't take me too literal on that!).

And the same good news for both the Cello Ctos. The Viola Cto. seems to retread the issues for me. And Violin Ctos. 1-4... I remember liking 3-4. So many works from the eighties all have the same tired 5 mvmt. scheme, though. All seem to include at least two long slow mvmts. and the obbligatory "devil's dance" scherzo. I got sooo tired of hearing about Schnittke's "evil" scherzos. Yawn.

I dooo dig the rock band in the Requiem.

Suffice to say I won't be "exploring" any unknown Schnittke (vocal/choral, etc.), which then brings me to the SQs 1-4. I had the Kronos, who have been replaced by:

No.1 (Borodin; though I don't have it yet): this is just a scappy little    thing from 1966. No great shakes.

No.2 (Arditti): a larger scrappy little thing from 1979. Nice "demonic" scherzo, but still no great shakes.

No.3 (Orlando): why no one has mentioned the dedicatees of Schnittke's SQ is understandable, but this cd (w/ Yun's SQ No.5 and Kueris' Clarinet Qnt.) is a very nice recital. This must stand as the ONE classic Schnittke work. All the elements are there: darkness, avant garde, renaissance music, wild out of control stuff, plainsong, etc...thee definition of "postmodern", I'm sure. Still, it's no real joy to listen to, but the Orlando bring me back now and then.

No.4 (ABQ): this is the one Schnittke piece I keep returning to (no less for the Rihm No.4... what a coup!). In this one, Schnittke wanted to write a "Viennese" SQ, like he put all his best intentions into it, and I think it's great. It's got the typical 80s five mvmt./40min. scheme of all other Schnittke from this period, but if you've noticed, this seems to be where Schnittke finally congeals for me, the post-DSCH sound of the late 80s. If it gets close to midnight on a desolate night, this is the SQ I go for.

So, if you're like me, and have invested lottts of $$$ on those ridiculously expersive BIS discs, plus many others, and have then sold off most of your Schnittke collection, you'll understand where I'm coming from. I wouldn't have done so without the endless media praise, and I will be that much more skeptical the next time a new god is proclaimed. Actually, I don't even care anymore.

[CRCulver]

I just find Schnittke totally annoying. I don't understand the love fest surrounding him, or, maybe I do. I know it was really hip to like him at one point. But everyone's fawning over the Piano Cto., and I HAVE TRIED, but this ode to a heart attack is probably my "most loathed" score (the man seems to have enshrined ALL his various heart attacks). And I couldn't care less about his suffering.

What in the world are you talking about? Schnittke had a problem with strokes, not heart attacks. And the Piano Concerto (if you mean the Concerto for Piano and Strings, his most recorded concerto for the instrument) was written many years before he started having health problems. And the very works where critics and biographers have seen a musical representation of his suffering, the Symphonies 6 and 7, you shower with praise.

[karlhenning]

I have a nice Ivashkin cd of the cello works (on some obscure Russian-like label) as a companion to another Ivashkin disc of Russian cello rarities on the same label. I believe the label has 4 letters in the name. Then, OF COURSE, on any other Russian cello disc I have, whoomp, there it is! I just find it overrated...what's the big deal? And cello sonata No.2 is just too typical of his late style. Was Schnittke the first to... to do WHAT? Did he INVENT the "miserable" sound?

The Chandos disc with the Shostakovich re-scoring of the Schumann Cello Concerto (Ivashkin is the soloist, so this ties in nicely) also has a Shostakovich re-scoring of (a? the?) Schnittke Cello Concerto.

[not edward]

The Chandos disc with the Shostakovich re-scoring of the Schumann Cello Concerto (Ivashkin is the soloist, so this ties in nicely) also has a Shostakovich re-scoring of (a? the?) Schnittke Cello Concerto.

I think it was the Tishchenko concerto, not the Schnittke.

(Schnittke's two cello concerti date from 1986 and 1990, iirc.)

[karlhenning]

I think it was the Tishchenko concerto, not the Schnittke.

(Schnittke's two cello concerti date from 1986 and 1990, iirc.)

Ach! Yes, of course, you're right.

Tchah, what a silly mistake! I crave the collective pardon.

[snyprrr]

Fair enough for CRCulver taking me to task.

[snyprrr]

My father died last year from a stroke (on Thursday); I should know better, and apologize to anyone I've offended, including myself. Thank you.

Ultimately, I don't reeeally think my beef is with Schnittke, it's with BIS and their Great and all powerful expensive cds that broke my bank in the 90s, back when a dollar was still .75. They are like the Black "Naxos"...haha... is it something about Sweden, or...

nevermind

[not edward]

I haven't read the review, but I was rather expecting to hear something like this. I still may pick the disc up and report, though.

Having listened a couple of times to the 9th, I'm still not sure what to make of it.

I don't think the typical ECM sound does the music any favours (and Dennis Russel Davies' conducting seems insipid to me--what's the point of conducting Schnittke in a staid manner?) but in general this symphony sounds rather more generically post-Bergian than most of this composer's work, though there are certainly some his typical touches in evidence.

The coupling didn't impress me: it sounded like a rather faceless mush of various post-Soviet composers all blended into one gooey mess.

[Catison]

Just listened to Peer Gynt.  Wow.  This is going to take a couple tries, but the Epilogue blew me away.

[karlhenning]

Dang, I mean, great!  Another one for the To-Listen-To pile 

[not edward]

Just listened to Peer Gynt.  Wow.  This is going to take a couple tries, but the Epilogue blew me away.

Welcome aboard!

('Wow' does seem to be the consensus view of Peer Gynt here and other places I've seen people discuss the work, for what it's worth.)

[karlhenning]

Welcome aboard!

('Wow' does seem to be the consensus view of Peer Gynt here and other places I've seen people discuss the work, for what it's worth.)

Hence this.

[Lethevich]

Any recs for fun Schnittke? I've been listening to the Gogol suite and it has reminded me how entertaining he can be when at his most perky (as in the film music - although I cannot recall specific pieces)...

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Welcome aboard!

Indeed, welcome aboard. It's a trip to another world!  0:)

By the way...given the hugeness of this score, I've always thought it would be a good idea for some enterprising composer to extract a suite from it, lasting 20-30 minutes, for popularization purposes. There are even some snappy tunes in it (like the Joplin parody, and the Grieg "Morning" parody) that could be used.

[bhodges]

Any recs for fun Schnittke? I've been listening to the Gogol suite and it has reminded me how entertaining he can be when at his most perky (as in the film music - although I cannot recall specific pieces)...

I have always thought the First Concerto Grosso was written with an underlying "twinkle in the eye" (if not really "uproarious").  Others may find it nightmarish, but I find it exuberant and lots of fun.

--Bruce

[not edward]

I've listened several times now to the Schnittke/Raskatov 9th and have grown to like it quite a lot, though I think of all the Schnittke I like it's taken the most time to appreciate. The key to the work seems to be twofold to me--a kind of reconcilation of his late style with the post-Bergian atmosphere of works like the string trio; plus a more positive spin on the late style in the way that the music pushes forward more energetically the longer it goes on.

I'm not calling it a masterpiece, but I find it distinctly compelling and worthy to sit with the best of his symphonies.