Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[Benji]

I echo the above Lethe comment about there being no consensus yet regarding the symphonies. Of the ones I've heard though, I can unhesitatingly recommend the 8th (I have the Rozhdestvensky recording).

Seconded, without reservation.

Peer Gynt is an absolutely staggering work, but it's 2 CDs on BIS, hence expensive.

Yes yes yes. Even darker that the bleak 8th Symphony, Peer Gynt is a real experience in music - totally exhausting, and emotionally draining. I really have to be in a certain frame of mind to listen to Schnittke.

[The new erato]

Very vaulable discussion for me this, as I am a Schnittke newbie and am slowly exploring his works. What I do have, is the mighty 2nd cello concerto on the magnificent Chandos double of his cello music, and the Hyperion disc of chamber music with the fine piano quintet and extremely interesting string trio. With time I will go further.

[Maciek]

I think some of the Concerti grossi (esp. no. 1?) could be considered an "easy" entry into Schnittke's sound world.

[snyprrr]

uh... this Raskatov fellow?

There's a Megadisc cd of three of his pieces, including a String Quartet (hence my interest). Does anyone know it?

I didn't know where else to ask.

[karlhenning]

Just picked up the Ewa Kupiec recording of piano concertos nos. 1-3.  Anyone know the recording or the pieces?

Found the SACD for $9.99 here on Washington Street, and I had chanced to see the image of the disc on-line when searching for Maria Lettberg (she plays the 3^rd & 4^th hand on concerto no. 3).

[karlhenning]

Isn't it about time we had an Alfred Garyevich Schnittke thread?

Say, Maciek . . . the Cyrillic transliteration I see has two r's.

So was his dad a Gary or a Harry? . . .

And (forgive me if this has already been discussed) . . . anyone know the Gesualdo opera?

[karlhenning]

Just picked up the Ewa Kupiec recording of piano concertos nos. 1-3.  Anyone know the recording or the pieces?

Found the SACD for $9.99 here on Washington Street, and I had chanced to see the image of the disc on-line when searching for Maria Lettberg (she plays the 3^rd & 4^th hand on concerto no. 3).

Gosh, was mine the last post on this thread for a year?

And this Ewa Kupiec recording is lovely.

[Maciek]

Say, Maciek . . . the Cyrillic transliteration I see has two r's.

So was his dad a Gary or a Harry? . . .

Actually, I've wondered about that myself a couple of times. Either I wasn't very persevering, or this is something new, but Wikipedia actually has the answer!

[karlhenning]

Ah, yes, good ol' Harry Viktorovich!

[bhodges]

Speaking of Schnittke (and can't believe that an entire year went by with no posts!), at a recent New York Philharmonic concert, Lisa Batiashvili was the soloist in Beethoven's Violin Concerto--with Schnittke's cadenzas. (Gidon Kremer has used them on a his recording.) As one friend said, hearing them was like being splashed with a glass of cold water: they are filled with the composer's typical buzzing, sputtering sounds, and very virtuosic on their own terms.  I found them extremely fascinating, and was thinking that Beethoven might have thought so, too.

--Bruce

[Grazioso]

Calling all Schnittke experts: anyone know the scoring for (the very cool) symphony 3? Thanks.

[Maciek]

I'm no expert, but here goes:

Schnittke, Alfred: Symphony No.3 (1981) 60'


Scoring
4(=picc).4(IV=corA).4(III=picc.cl;IV=bcl).4(IV=dbn)-6.4. 4(IV=dbass trbn).1-perc(6):timp/2tam-t/vib/mar/bells/glsp- el.guit-b.guit-2harp-pft-hpd-cel-org-strings(16.16.12.12.10)

World Premiere
11/5/1981
Gewandhaus , Leipzig
Gewandhausorchester / Kurt Masur

[Maciek]

And just as confirmation (though slightly less detailed):

Playing time:   57:00
Opus/Year:   (1981)
Genre:   Orchestral music
Instrumentation:   4,4,4,4 - 6,4,4,1 - Schl (6 Spieler: u.a. Pk, Gl, Glsp, Marimb, Vibr), 2 Hf, Cel, Cemb, Klav, Org, E-Git, BGit, Streicher (16/16/12/12/10)

(The estimated duration has dropped by 3 minutes.)

[Grazioso]

And just as confirmation (though slightly less detailed):

(The estimated duration has dropped by 3 minutes.)

Many thanks!

[Mirror Image]

I think Schnittke is one of those composers that's just hyped to death by critics. A Debussy, Ravel, Bartok, or Stravinsky, he is not. I thought his polystylism would be an interesting idea, but the way Schnittke uses this method in his music is completely disjointed and doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever. I understand it that he dropped this approach in his later music, perhaps later Schnittke is more to my tastes. We shall see. I won't be returning to his early work anytime soon.

[Lethevich]

You really need to work on being able to say that you just don't care for a composer, rather than claiming that they are bad

Late Schnittke is less collage-like, but it's still full of his stylistic fingerprints - it couldn't be recognised as music by anybody else. Fundimentally Schnittke isn't really concerned with coherency or rigour in the traditional manner, it's not a failing, but a choice. I feel that your entry to his music via the symphonies was not ideal - in any recommendation thread most of the music suggested would not be symphonies. As a symphonist Schnittke reminds me a little of Schumann - his brilliance allowed him to write well in the medium, but it perhaps didn't come as naturally to him as other forms.

Either way, before you totally give up try the 8th symphony to at least give his late style a chance. If only short clips could rescue him for you, then perhaps try these:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7p1NM6hn4w8 http://www.youtube.com/v/pYLpMmw_DUE http://www.youtube.com/v/Ct8k_iiF_I8
http://www.youtube.com/v/9k4Uu7S5t30 http://www.youtube.com/v/XMivkQOYcGU http://www.youtube.com/v/xNKWoo9Fe40
http://www.youtube.com/v/tgDwmIGTrhk http://www.youtube.com/v/vK6uX1-Yb8o http://www.youtube.com/v/m7awq8UDXMY

I prefer his more integrated/runinative music, and many of the above are more concentrated than some of the sprawling symphonies.

I realise that this list is overkill to listen through, but I couldn't pick just a few.

[Mirror Image]

You really need to work on being able to say that you just don't care for a composer, rather than claiming that they are bad

I never claimed he was a bad composer. My claim was he was overhyped, which I believe he is. Hell, I think Beethoven is overhyped too! Even if I did claim he was a terrible composer, I have every right to express my opinion whether you agree with it or not. That's the great thing about music, it's subjective.

As I said above, I haven't given up hope. I will keep trying, but when I'm ready, until then I will listen to music that I enjoy, which is a more rewarding activity than listening to something that does nothing for me.

[eyeresist]

Yep, MI in his previous post included qualifications like "I think", "I thought" and "my tastes", so it makes no sense to accuse him of simply writing off Schnittke as a bad composer.

Feel like I'm repeating myself here.

[Lethevich]

People can think many things, but it's still fun to try to discuss them

Edit: I did misread his point, however, though I would still not consider any non-canon composer as particularly overrated, although plenty are underrated.

[karlhenning]

I never claimed he was a bad composer. My claim was he was overhyped, which I believe he is.

Well, that's a bit of sophistry, isn't it? Like somehow in another thread recently claiming that Le sacre is overrated.  It is a claim that in the case of something which many people, including professional musicians, find of compelling artistic value, they're all mistaken, but that (miraculously) the truth has been granted to you, and you perceive better than they the true value of the art under advisement.