Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[snyprrr]

Symphony No.6 (1992)

We have Otaka (BIS) and Polyansky (Chandos) before us. The moment is at hand. Otaka, the only game in town for a long while, has for years weathered outrageous condemnation from most quarters,- roundly dismissed is more like it- and yet, the temptation to simply gathered up Symphonies 6 & 7 in one place must be too great for some!

I'm into the second movement of the Otaka. I surely wonder how Polyansky is going to add four minutes to that First Movement, but I'm going to switch over after the Presto. Otherwise, in a liberal mood I have a hard time pinning down what the heresies are. The Second Movement is equal time for both.

From the outset, am I hearing Polyansky quicker than Otaka? Surely it can't be. Well, but the Chandos sound is certainly up to par, giving quite a different feel from the 'Pettersson Black' BIS recording (which, frankly, I love, lending that extra depressing quality which seems a bit lost in the lavish, opulent Chandos). Do I hear the burbling brass come off a bit clearer (better?) in the Chandos? I'll give Polyansky the nod in milking this music superbly, but someone is going to have to give me some timings on the Otaka if you want me to hear some specific instances of the crimes he's accused of. I actually like the 'Quote' bit (is it 'Peter & the Wolf'?) better in the Otaka. The strings immediately following are rendered, of course, much smoother in the Chandos (again, the BIS has that typical (wonderful) 'Petterrson Black' recording style which gives the piece a large Gothic Setting to unfold, whereas the Chandos just sounds like a perfect recording in the classic Chandos lushness). Frankly, though I like the winning brass in the Chandos, the open BIS recording, as always, allows the brass quite a spectacular presence. Again, someone point out Otaka's fault here.


For those who DON'T like Schnittke, I might have to recommend 6 over 8,... 6 AND 7 over 8, perhaps,... well, all three form a unit, there are all the final distillations of Schnittke's Late Style. No.6 totally breaks with old Schnittke to lay on the Bruckner (in 7 mostly) in a much more Classical, coherent style that any lover of mid-century Symphonies would eat up. It has the pencil-sketch sparseness of Late Shostakovich with less obvious melodic material. The First Movement seems to function as a ruminating restlessness, mulling things over and over in the dark language of aforementioned mentor. It seems the most abstract, cryptic, and gnomic utterance of Shostakovich's 'motto' theme- odd noodling that becomes its own Morse Code.

Polyansky's Second Movement, is, well, quite superior to Otaka, but, in his haphazard way, Otaka lends an air of zanyness that is curtailed in the Chandos (through virtuosity!). Still I like both.


I'm going to stop here for now for some comments by you. Surely you are well aware of this controversy and would like to weigh in? Chandos makes it sound like DSCH's 14 1/2, and BIS makes it sound like Pettersson's 3 1/2- what's the problem?

What an enigmatic ending, especially the Chandos. Surely this is Petterssons's 3 1/2! Like a machine that just can't get started. Very black. I like it.

The more I compared, the less willing I was to let the criticism of Otaka stand. Sure, the Chandos presents the music as perfectly as one could ask for, giving an absolute Masterpiece 'Aura' to the proceedings, but the BIS version's starker presentation lends its own particular charm. You could ask for a worse rendition than Otaka's, so, just be grateful we have a compare. I will probably continue to listen to both.

As far as the 7th goes, I've heard that Otaka is better here, so I have been less inclined to compare. Anyone?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Thanks for the analysis, but I could never warm up to the 6th. Too much like a body with all the guts scooped out, only skin & bones remaining.

[snyprrr]

Thanks for the analysis, but I could never warm up to the 6th. Too much like a body with all the guts scooped out, only skin & bones remaining.

Are you necrophilia shaming me?

I think that's what I like about it,... yes, very corpse like. Obviously your morphine drip has a kink in it, here let me hellllll(CRASH!!)

[snyprrr]

Haha, it's like kids poking a corpse with a stick! And I love it! That's my review. Pay me now!

[snyprrr]

Cello Concerto (No.1)

I have always had Gutman/Masur (EMI) and yet I hear Ivashkin is the way to go these days. I pulled it out as part of my Schnittke-thon- I seem to forget this music, maybe because that one single "wrong chord" that comes around obliterates all else in my mind. As a matter of fact, it seems not like 'polystylist' Schnittke, but like one of the first works of the 'Enigmatic/Abstract' Late Music. It certainly is MASSSIVE in its use of 'climax' and broadness and comes across very much like a giant gothic cathedral with monster legs a la Pink Floyd on acid. Again, it almost sounds like Pettersson's CC, such is the angst on display!

It reminds me a little of the creepy feel of the Piano Concerto, but is less overt in any of Schnittke's quote-ology mannerism. Here we simply sense the drama we are participating in- like if 'Night of the Living Dead' had been produced in the '30s? Schnittke was certainly a CinemaGraphic Composer.

At 40 minutes, it's like a city on fire- Godzilla destroying type of Cello Concerto, surely in line with the Penderecki and the Halffter that Slava was commissioning. He must have decided to lay down a carpet bombing of massive CCs in the mid-'80s to insure that Masterpiece status would not elude the current, baton-handed generation. So we have quite a few Great CCs during this time, all very dark and somewhat forbidding. And then we have Schnittke's No.2! It does seem like these two are the pinnacle of Schnittke's achievement- though many like the Sym 8 style better. Here, Schnittke sizzles like his life depends on it- because AllThatJazz- it does!

[Brian]

"This is a very important CD for me. Torleif Thedéen came to me, wanting to make a record, like most Scandinavian artists of the time. He, however, told me that he had something special to offer: Schnittke's Cello Sonata. Whose Cello Sonata, I asked, and he repeated: Schnittke. Never heard of, is it good?, whereupon Torleif played a cassette tape for me. I was so taken aback. What fantastic music!!! Why had I never heard of Schnittke? So I contacted Schnittke's Publisher, Sikorski in Hamburg, got a huge box with scores and sounding material and the rest is history. Of course Torleif got to record his first CD (he now has done 40 for us) and BIS was led onto the Schnittke path. A good day in BIS's and my life, indeed. Do enjoy this fantastic music." - BIS Founder and CEO Robert von Bahr

[Karl Henning]

"This is a very important CD for me. Torleif Thedéen came to me, wanting to make a record, like most Scandinavian artists of the time. He, however, told me that he had something special to offer: Schnittke's Cello Sonata. Whose Cello Sonata, I asked, and he repeated: Schnittke. Never heard of, is it good?, whereupon Torleif played a cassette tape for me. I was so taken aback. What fantastic music!!! Why had I never heard of Schnittke? So I contacted Schnittke's Publisher, Sikorski in Hamburg, got a huge box with scores and sounding material and the rest is history. Of course Torleif got to record his first CD (he now has done 40 for us) and BIS was led onto the Schnittke path. A good day in BIS's and my life, indeed. Do enjoy this fantastic music." - BIS Founder and CEO Robert von Bahr

Nice!

[snyprrr]

"This is a very important CD for me. Torleif Thedéen came to me, wanting to make a record, like most Scandinavian artists of the time. He, however, told me that he had something special to offer: Schnittke's Cello Sonata. Whose Cello Sonata, I asked, and he repeated: Schnittke. Never heard of, is it good?, whereupon Torleif played a cassette tape for me. I was so taken aback. What fantastic music!!! Why had I never heard of Schnittke? So I contacted Schnittke's Publisher, Sikorski in Hamburg, got a huge box with scores and sounding material and the rest is history. Of course Torleif got to record his first CD (he now has done 40 for us) and BIS was led onto the Schnittke path. A good day in BIS's and my life, indeed. Do enjoy this fantastic music." - BIS Founder and CEO Robert von Bahr

I got that CD as a gift waaay back when, and it has remained with me out of respect, though, (and I haven't compared) I assume that it has been displaced many times over. It has that typical BIS sound, which hits me one way or the other depending on the humidity that day!

Still, my first Schnittke. Hated it, but was TOLD by Penguin Guide that I MUST Love It. oy vey... I still can't stand it! But, they MADE me (did they have a deal with Bahr?) have to go and get all this BIS discs, which I dutifully TRIED to love- no, you weren't going to get me to like that stuff back them. Maybe had I heard the 4th? 1st? 3rd? No, I got the Chailly and the BIS and was like, wtf? is this crap? haha!!

Ah,./.. those days...

[Mirror Image]

Time to shake off some dust on this thread...

I would like to read some you guys personal stories with Schnittke's music and, depending on whether you enjoy the music, how it has shaped your outlook on other composer's music or just music in general? What was the first work that opened your ears to his sound-world?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

What was the first work that opened your ears to his sound-world?

In Memoriam, the orchestration of the Piano Quintet. I liked it right off the bat, and was impressed by the feeling of extreme gloom and hopelessness. Like late DSCH taken one step further.

[snyprrr]

Cello Sonata (1977)... but I didn't like it. But the Penguin Guide told me I was a Dirty hater if I didn't like it, so, I was forced to buy all the BIS CDs and prove my fidelity. After that, I felt like I'd been duped.

Then Xenakis happened.

Now Schnittke sounds like comfort food for a visit by the stasi--- dead of winter gloom and death... I can "pick it up" like I did that night, but, because I'm such a... well you all know what a "such an _____" I am!!) Individualist, I've always had my own style, so I'm always going to raise an eyebrow or two--- but I certainly won't (abstract) gloom and death is what I turn to Schnittke for

[Mirror Image]

In Memoriam, the orchestration of the Piano Quintet. I liked it right off the bat, and was impressed by the feeling of extreme gloom and hopelessness. Like late DSCH taken one step further.

Yes, that's a very fine work. Gloom and hopelessness are apart of the Schnittke package deal.

[Mirror Image]

Cello Sonata (1977)... but I didn't like it. But the Penguin Guide told me I was a Dirty hater if I didn't like it, so, I was forced to buy all the BIS CDs and prove my fidelity. After that, I felt like I'd been duped.

Then Xenakis happened.

Now Schnittke sounds like comfort food for a visit by the stasi--- dead of winter gloom and death... I can "pick it up" like I did that night, but, because I'm such a... well you all know what a "such an _____" I am!!) Individualist, I've always had my own style, so I'm always going to raise an eyebrow or two--- but I certainly won't (abstract) gloom and death is what I turn to Schnittke for

'Dead of winter gloom and death...," ha! I like this description. Some composer's music takes you to different exotic and remote places mentally speaking, but it seems that Schnittke takes a listener right down to the graveyard. I don't know who used the word macabre in this thread but I remember reading it and thought that describes Schnittke's music as well.

[snyprrr]

'Dead of winter gloom and death...," ha! I like this description. Some composer's music takes you to different exotic and remote places mentally speaking, but it seems that Schnittke takes a listener right down to the graveyard. I don't know who used the word macabre in this thread but I remember reading it and thought that describes Schnittke's music as well.

I've got Symphony 6 waiting to be listened to after you bumped the Thread, but

a) the weather is still nice

b) can't shake DSCH at the moment


Please wait - they say this is going to be a miserable winter--- plenty of time for Schnittke then!!!

[Mirror Image]

I've got Symphony 6 waiting to be listened to after you bumped the Thread, but

a) the weather is still nice

b) can't shake DSCH at the moment


Please wait - they say this is going to be a miserable winter--- plenty of time for Schnittke then!!!

Symphony No. 6 is a strange brew. It's a very cool sounding work. I believe it's one of his most stripped-down works. I mean the music is completely exposed. There's nothing filling the space. It kind of just breezes like the wind and then this wind is followed by more silence. A symphony for a Halloween night.

This image would be perfect accompaniment for this symphony:

[chadfeldheimer]

Time to shake off some dust on this thread...

I would like to read some you guys personal stories with Schnittke's music and, depending on whether you enjoy the music, how it has shaped your outlook on other composer's music or just music in general? What was the first work that opened your ears to his sound-world?

My first encounter with Schnittke's music was the recording of his first symphony on BIS. I read it should be essential and also liked the fact that he had lived just a few blocks away from my apartment in Hamburg, as I got aware from a memorial table on the building he had lived in. However I was a bit disappointed with it, found it flashy and also that it's different parts did not make for a coherent whole. I still do not consider it to be among his best works. Then I tried his Concerto Grosso Nr.5 (DG-CD, together with Glass' Violin Concerto), which really clicked with me. I especially like his imaginative string writing (Cello Concertos, Viola Concerto, String Quartets), the Concerto Grossos and his sinister Faust Cantata. Alex Ross compared him to Adrian Leverkühn in Thomas Mann's Doctor Faustus. There's something to it. I read that Schnittke liked this book very much. Lately I also read it and I feel it helped me to get deeper into Schnittke's sound world. 

[Karl Henning]

I was surprised at how the First really grabbed me by the collar.  There's a phrase I shouldn't use (and Karlo knows which . . . .)

[North Star]

I was surprised at how the First really grabbed me by the collar.  There's a phrase I shouldn't use (and Karlo knows which . . . .)

That phrase might be hackneyed in this context, but the piece is certainly quite something, and it works for me anyway.

[Mirror Image]

My first encounter with Schnittke's music was the recording of his first symphony on BIS. I read it should be essential and also liked the fact that he had lived just a few blocks away from my apartment in Hamburg, as I got aware from a memorial table on the building he had lived in. However I was a bit disappointed with it, found it flashy and also that it's different parts did not make for a coherent whole. I still do not consider it to be among his best works. Then I tried his Concerto Grosso Nr.5 (DG-CD, together with Glass' Violin Concerto), which really clicked with me. I especially like his imaginative string writing (Cello Concertos, Viola Concerto, String Quartets), the Concerto Grossos and his sinister Faust Cantata. Alex Ross compared him to Adrian Leverkühn in Thomas Mann's Doctor Faustus. There's something to it. I read that Schnittke liked this book very much. Lately I also read it and I feel it helped me to get deeper into Schnittke's sound world.

Thanks for sharing your Schnittke story with all of us. I, too, do not think highly of Symphony No. 1, in fact, I think of it more of a novelty work than anything substantial, but it's certainly good fun. In that BIS recorded performance (w/ Segerstam), I especially LOVE the jazz improvisation section. Of course, this improvisation is always different, but I really loved what the musicians did with it in the Segerstam performance. I also enjoy his more string-related works with the Cello Concertos No. 1 & 2, Violin Concerto No. 1 (an early work I like regardless of it's originality), the SQs, and, of course, the Viola Concerto being particular favorites. The Requiem, Faust Cantata, and the Choir Concerto really opened up Schnittke's music to a different audience IMHO. Peer Gynt is also another masterstroke in this composer's oeuvre. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it or not. We also shouldn't forget his chamber music like the Cello Sonatas, the Piano Quintet, etc. Of the symphonies, I like most of them, especially the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 8th. Being able to hear a reconstructed Symphony No. 9 was also interesting. This composer could have gone in so many directions, but thankfully he had already left behind a highly satisfying catalogue of works.

[chadfeldheimer]

Thanks for sharing your Schnittke story with all of us. I, too, do not think highly of Symphony No. 1, in fact, I think of it more of a novelty work than anything substantial, but it's certainly good fun. In that BIS recorded performance (w/ Segerstam), I especially LOVE the jazz improvisation section. Of course, this improvisation is always different, but I really loved what the musicians did with it in the Segerstam performance.

Yes - there are certainly good sections in it and I agree it's a good fun listening. As a hole I don't feel it can compete with Schnittke's best works. BTW I think with his "Musique pour le soupers de Roi Ubu" B.A. Zimmermann followed a similar approach as Schnittke with his 1st symphony and I think he was more successful thereby.   

I also enjoy his more string-related works with the Cello Concertos No. 1 & 2, Violin Concerto No. 1 (an early work I like regardless of it's originality), the SQs, and, of course, the Viola Concerto being particular favorites. The Requiem, Faust Cantata, and the Choir Concerto really opened up Schnittke's music to a different audience IMHO.

Yes - especially parts of the Faust Cantata (Seid nüchtern und wachet) have a bit of a (if very dark) pop-feel to it. I think Schnittke was very aware of pop music. Is it reported somewhere, if he actually liked some of it? Anyway the Cantata is very well done. I could imagine Diamanda Galas would be very good interpreter.

Peer Gynt is also another masterstroke in this composer's oeuvre. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it or not.

Not really. I was thinking about buying it and listened to some of it's parts via Youtube, which I liked quite a lot. However the high price of the CD retained me from buying it till now.

We also shouldn't forget his chamber music like the Cello Sonatas, the Piano Quintet, etc.

I know and love the Piano Quintet.

Of the symphonies, I like most of them, especially the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 8th. Being able to hear a reconstructed Symphony No. 9 was also interesting.

I have a recording of  Rozhdestvensky conducting Schnittke's 3rd symphony which I really like. I think Rozhdestvensky is a great Schnittke interpreter. What do you think of the BIS-symphony-box?

This composer could have gone in so many directions, but thankfully he had already left behind a highly satisfying catalogue of works.

Absolutely