Author Topic: Khachaturian  (Read 754 times)

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Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2020, 01:08:29 PM »
This is Jurowski's Spartacus, which is 2h16min long:




But this is 3h02min long:



I've only heard the Zhuraitis and it's absolutely fantastic, almost as good as Gayaneh, just that Spartacus has more drama.



So is this Zhuraitis/Spartacus a different (live?) performance.  Its the one I have and doesn't seem to have anything like 3 hours of music...... (yet it states it is "complete").  The total timing here is just over 2 hours...


Offline JBS

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2020, 01:18:15 PM »
So is this Zhuraitis/Spartacus a different (live?) performance.  Its the one I have and doesn't seem to have anything like 3 hours of music...... (yet it states it is "complete").  The total timing here is just over 2 hours...



Well, a complete performance  may simply mean it includes everything that was performed that evening, even if the performance did not include all the music. 

Or perhaps I'm just being too pedantic with vocabulary. :P

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Offline JBS

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2020, 01:27:27 PM »
There are apparently were cuts in that performance
Quote
Grigorovich, the path-breaking choreographer, had his own artistic strategy and his own totally innovative approach to scenario. The flow of the action is intercepted by the monologues of the four main characters, who appear to be commenting on events. The alternation of direct action with self-commentary, the departure of the epos into the sphere of psychological reflection — this had never been done before in ballet. It became necessary to make several cuts to the music, a re-arrangement of episodes, everything had to be subordinate to an integrated, dramatic through-line, “organizing the action around the theme of the uprising”. Grigorovich wrote very expressively about his conversations with Khachaturyan and from them it is clear how acute, at first, was the problem of mutual understanding, how the «battle for the notes» unfolded.

https://www.bolshoi.ru/en/performances/47/details/

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Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2020, 05:23:46 PM »
So is this Zhuraitis/Spartacus a different (live?) performance.  Its the one I have and doesn't seem to have anything like 3 hours of music...... (yet it states it is "complete").  The total timing here is just over 2 hours...



Thank you for the info. It is very helpful. I need to get the disc.
This may be the live recording of this show in 1984:  https://youtu.be/v0VACj3bKCU
Great performance.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 06:55:54 PM by Forever Brett Kavanaugh »

Offline Symphonic Addict

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2020, 07:55:55 PM »
So is this Zhuraitis/Spartacus a different (live?) performance.  Its the one I have and doesn't seem to have anything like 3 hours of music...... (yet it states it is "complete").  The total timing here is just over 2 hours...



The Zhoraitis CD includes some appendix:

-Bacchante's Melancholy Dance
-Night Incident
-Tarantella
-Saturnalia

All of it lasting 19:55 min. Also, the music is divided in 4 acts, whilst the Jurowski CD is divided in 3 (don't know the CD you posted, though) arranged by Yuri Grigorivoch. That makes all more confusing. It seems there is not a last word in its real form.

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2020, 10:37:03 PM »
The Zhoraitis CD includes some appendix:

-Bacchante's Melancholy Dance
-Night Incident
-Tarantella
-Saturnalia

All of it lasting 19:55 min. Also, the music is divided in 4 acts, whilst the Jurowski CD is divided in 3 (don't know the CD you posted, though) arranged by Yuri Grigorivoch. That makes all more confusing. It seems there is not a last word in its real form.

A proverbial can of worms!  Of course it also raises the issue (I like the phrase "battle for the notes" mentioned in another post) of the different demands of a 'theatrical' version of the score where everything is subservient to the dramatic necessity and what might be called a 'reference' edition where you want every note/variant possible.  So you have all those operas with "traditional cuts" for example.  I must admit, for domestic listening, I like the 'reference' option mainly because if I like a composer, I'd like to hear as much of their music as possible!

Offline pjme

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2020, 12:29:58 AM »
Spartacus has had indeed a very complicated history:

It is not clear to me if a score of the "Ur- Spartacus", as Khachaturian composed it in 1953-1954 does exist.

The Khachaturian museum lists the ballet as follows:
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the Leningrad Kirov State Academic Theater of Opera and Ballet
1956
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the State Academic Bolshoi Theater of the USSR (first scenic edition)
1958
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the same theater (second scenic edition)   1962
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the same theater (third scenic edition)   1968

http://www.khachaturian.am/eng/works/music.htm

This study clarifies the many changes:
https://jm.ucpress.edu/content/ucpmusic/33/3/362.full.pdf

Within a single decade, Bolshoi Theater in Moscow produced distinct versions of Aram Khachaturian’s ballet Spartacus by Igor Moiseyev
(1958), Leonid Yakobson (1962), and Yuri Grigorovich (1968).
A close examination of the three productions, analyzed along with evidence from the transcripts
of the theater’s artistic committee meetings, newspaper criticism of the ballets, and audience surveys from the theater’s
archive reveals how the productions participated in Thaw-era debates about the place of nationality in Soviet society.
The original two choreographers, like Khachaturian, used the ballet as a place to stage the ‘‘Friendship of Peoples,’’ a metaphorical representation of Soviet society as a meeting place for diverse nationalities, conceived of as essentialized
folk cultures. In 1968, when Grigorovich staged the ballet, he radically rearranged the score, replacing Khachaturian’s multi-ethnic display with an exhibition of ethnic homogenization. Grigorovich’s revisions reflected Khrushchev’s and Brezhnev’s campaigns to shape a single, unified Soviet national identity.

Possibly, Kachaturian reused some bits and pieces in the orchestral suites he extracted himself in 1955:

First Suite from “Spartacus”   1955
Second Suite from “Spartacus”   1955
Third Suite from “Spartacus”   1955
Symphonic Pictures from “Spartacus”   1955

« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 12:44:09 AM by pjme »

Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2020, 05:09:04 AM »
Thanks for the great info.
I am sure there was a political influence. Gayene was more overtly political and centralistic.
Btw, a Soviet TV program version of Spartacus is here: https://youtu.be/SAKMCfUZ8Fk
The show looks great and the music wonderful.


Spartacus has had indeed a very complicated history:

It is not clear to me if a score of the "Ur- Spartacus", as Khachaturian composed it in 1953-1954 does exist.

The Khachaturian museum lists the ballet as follows:
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the Leningrad Kirov State Academic Theater of Opera and Ballet
1956
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the State Academic Bolshoi Theater of the USSR (first scenic edition)
1958
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the same theater (second scenic edition)   1962
“Spartacus”. In the arrangement of the same theater (third scenic edition)   1968

http://www.khachaturian.am/eng/works/music.htm

This study clarifies the many changes:
https://jm.ucpress.edu/content/ucpmusic/33/3/362.full.pdf

Within a single decade, Bolshoi Theater in Moscow produced distinct versions of Aram Khachaturian’s ballet Spartacus by Igor Moiseyev
(1958), Leonid Yakobson (1962), and Yuri Grigorovich (1968).
A close examination of the three productions, analyzed along with evidence from the transcripts
of the theater’s artistic committee meetings, newspaper criticism of the ballets, and audience surveys from the theater’s
archive reveals how the productions participated in Thaw-era debates about the place of nationality in Soviet society.
The original two choreographers, like Khachaturian, used the ballet as a place to stage the ‘‘Friendship of Peoples,’’ a metaphorical representation of Soviet society as a meeting place for diverse nationalities, conceived of as essentialized
folk cultures. In 1968, when Grigorovich staged the ballet, he radically rearranged the score, replacing Khachaturian’s multi-ethnic display with an exhibition of ethnic homogenization. Grigorovich’s revisions reflected Khrushchev’s and Brezhnev’s campaigns to shape a single, unified Soviet national identity.

Possibly, Kachaturian reused some bits and pieces in the orchestral suites he extracted himself in 1955:

First Suite from “Spartacus”   1955
Second Suite from “Spartacus”   1955
Third Suite from “Spartacus”   1955
Symphonic Pictures from “Spartacus”   1955

Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2020, 05:32:56 AM »
I have this CD if it is the one you mean. I've hardly played it but I don't have the original RCA recording to compare it with. As far as I recall the sound quality was very good.


I received the Jpn CD of Gayenne by  Loris/NPO a few days ago, and listened it about 7 times.
The sound quality is very good, and the performance is fine.
I am glad that I bought the disc, but I prefer the USSR Radio Orchestra recording.
The latter recording is more colorful, vibrant, and visionary.
Still I will keep listening the Loris recording often.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 05:45:30 AM by Forever Brett Kavanaugh »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2020, 05:55:35 AM »
I received the Jpn CD of Gayenne by  Loris/NPO a few days ago, and listened it about 7 times.
The sound quality is very good, and the performance is fine.
I am glad that I bought the disc, but I prefer the USSR Radio Orchestra recording.
The latter recording is more colorful, vibrant, and visionary.
Still I will keep listening the Loris recording often.
I'm glad that the recording and performance were fine for you. I enjoy it too. I just wish that Japanese company would reissue the Loris/LSO account of Symphony No.1.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2020, 09:47:39 AM »
I'm glad that the recording and performance were fine for you. I enjoy it too. I just wish that Japanese company would reissue the Loris/LSO account of Symphony No.1.

After all these decades, Sony will not remaster and issue the recording. You may want to record the LP and convert it to a digital form, and mix it with an equalizer. There are a few free, on-line equalizer  services.

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2020, 06:42:12 AM »
After all these decades, Sony will not remaster and issue the recording. You may want to record the LP and convert it to a digital form, and mix it with an equalizer. There are a few free, on-line equalizer  services.

Never say never!  Why not a Sony/Tjeknavorian edition?!  He did quite a few discs for RCA that would be ripe for one of their bargain boxes........

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2020, 07:24:41 AM »
Never say never!  Why not a Sony/Tjeknavorian edition?!  He did quite a few discs for RCA that would be ripe for one of their bargain boxes........

That's what I'm hoping for. After all RCA/Sony issued a Morton Gould edition restoring his IMO terrific performance of Miaskovsky's poetic 21st Symphony with its fine LP coupling of Rimsky-Korsakov's 'Antar', complete with the very attractive psychaedelic/oriental LP sleeve in a mini version for the CD and that was a 1968 recording and the Khachaturian First Symphony is from 1979. While they are about it they can reissue Edward Downes's legendary (IMO) recording of Bax's 3rd Symphony with the LSO.
 8)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Khachaturian
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2020, 07:26:37 AM »
After all these decades, Sony will not remaster and issue the recording. You may want to record the LP and convert it to a digital form, and mix it with an equalizer. There are a few free, on-line equalizer  services.
You're probably right but I live in hope! And now, thanks to you, I'm aware that that marvellous recording is on You Tube.
 :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).