J.S. Bach on the Organ

[prémont]

The matching fugue to the above:

http://www.youtube.com/v/8_hDFuvV1eo

Thank you, premont, for promising to tell us who recorded this.  You are the pro! 

'

This is also Michel Chapuis. Reminds me of why I do not listen to him often. Again we hear sloppy playing, because he has chosen a tempo for the last section which is to fast for his comfort.

[prémont]

Again I go along with mr. Premont: nope, but he's a Top Tenner for sure. I prefer Vernet f.i. to his teacher M-C Alain .... and I do rate her high already.

My Top 3 would prabobaly be: Kooiman (Coronata, OOP), Beekman (Lindenberg, OOP) and Foccroulle (Ricercar, re-issued in 2009).
The guys from the Pays-Bas!

(Nothing but sheer chauvinism, of course. )

My top three also, with the exception that I am a little in doubt, whether I should rank Foccroulle or Alain II (despite her use of modern organs) as no.3. The other would then be no. 4.

But please do not call me a SPYTSLIKKER for that reason.

[prémont]

In fact, up to now, my humble conclusions are that there is always something to enjoy with almost any interpreter.

Completely agreed. Even Chapuis has got his better moments (f.i. the Vivaldi concerto arrangements and the miscellaneous corales), and this is why I rarely part with any Bach organ recording. I have to confess though, that I parted with the above mentioned Rawshorne CD on Regis.

[prémont]

Indeed, but I think the problem lies more with the question 'what counts for profundity in Bach?'   I believe the answer is culturally relative, often in quite subtle ways.  Of course, cultures can be national, social, local or even personal ones.  No
wonder, as I have discovered, every kind of Bach interpretation can be deemed either superficial or boring or both.  It all
depends on who's judging. 

Generally - ups. generalizing is a bad thing - I find it easier to recognize superficiality than profundity. Who f.i. has made the most profund recording of Bach´s cello suites on v. da spalla? Kuijken? Terakado? Badiarov? And does it matter at all to put a question like that?

[prémont]

Another performance of the 'St Anne' P&F will be uploaded later for comparison, but now one of my favourite of all Bach fugues, the e-minor 'wedge'. Guess who's playing?  Different from the one before, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/v/viVdwi-Y0AQ

This is a master musician. Simple, very noble and devoted interpretation, impeccable fingers and feet, clear and unfussy plenum registrations. My first association is Marie-Claire Alain - if so her second recording. This time I have to consult my shelves to make sure.

[prémont]

This is a master musician. Simple, very noble and devoted interpretation, impeccable fingers and feet, clear and unfussy plenum registrations. My first association is Marie-Claire Alain - if so her second recording. This time I have to consult my shelves to make sure.

Listening to Alains recording afterwards reveals a very similar interpretation (very much what I had in my mind) but ca 15 sec. shorter in duration. I am confused,

[FideLeo]

Listening to Alains recording afterwards reveals a very similar interpretation (very much what I had in my mind) but ca 15 sec. shorter in duration. I am confused,

You are right again re the second Chapuis track, essentially a continuation of the first track style-wise.

The 'wedge' fugue is played by Alessio Corti.  I only have 2x2=4 discs from his set (again bought very cheaply ca. £2-3 each double set).  As you commented elsewhere, the main drawbacks of his set have little to do with his interpretation or performance.   

[prémont]

The 'wedge' fugue is played by Alessio Corti.  I only have 2x2=4 discs from his set (again bought very cheaply ca. £2-3 each double set).  As you commented elsewhere, the main drawbacks of his set have little to do with his interpretation or performance.

Oh, you should not have told me this that early. Even if I did not think of him yet, I think mainly because the organ sounds more CentralGerman, than I remembered.

[Bulldog]

Completely agreed. Even Chapuis has got his better moments (f.i. the Vivaldi concerto arrangements and the miscellaneous corales), and this is why I rarely part with any Bach organ recording. I have to confess though, that I parted with the above mentioned Rawshorne CD on Regis.

The last sentence surprised me a little as the Rawsthorne is one of my favored Bach single discs.

[prémont]

The last sentence surprised me a little as the Rawsthorne is one of my favored Bach single discs.

I am surprised - probably just as much as you are. 

[Marc]

Oh, you should not have told me this that early. Even if I did not think of him yet, I think mainly because the organ sounds more CentralGerman, than I remembered.

Yes, Corti's Tamburinis are not ideal (recording sound is also not very pithy), but IMO they're much better than f.i. the Montréal Beckerath used by Lagacé. I think I even prefer them to Bowyer's rather cold Marcussen (Odense).

I was at the office today and didn't have the chance to listen to the BWV 548 sound example. But when I read that it was Corti I just had to smile, because Masolino, after uploading Premont's 'number four', also managed to upload my 'number four'.

(And it's Kooiman the Second who's in the lead, a neck in front from Beekman, third is Foccroulle followed by Corti. Next in the field is Rübsam the First from Ritchie, behind them there's a packed group lead by Koopman, Vernet and Alain the Second, with Weinberger, Fagius and both Walcha's not that far away. Then comes Steinberger with Rogg the Second, and Vad and Hurford are still very close with maybe a chance to make up some ground in the next hundred yards or so. )

I'd like to add though that this is only a silly 'race' between completists.
As has been said many times before in this thread, there are very good Bach organists who never recorded an integral, like Oster, Friedrich, Bleicher, Ghielmi, Van Beek, Van Doeselaar and new talents like Benjamin Alard .... and many gifted others.

Yes, Bach's organ keeps on working!

Post Scriptum -> about the thread title: has that exclamation mark been there all the time?

[FideLeo]

I was at the office today and didn't have the chance to listen to the BWV 548 sound example. But when I read that it was Corti I just had to smile, because Masolino, after uploading Premont's 'number four', also managed to upload my 'number four'.

Now I am glad that I have finally uploaded something worthy.    Saw somebody loaded Chapuis' performance of the 'wedge' fugue at youtube, and thought it might be ok to post it here for a neck-to-neck comparison with the current no. 4 

http://www.youtube.com/v/8QJN6Q8OG3I

In comparison it does sound a bit..hmm...like a chugging train?   
Also, reading a bit of the comments on the youtube page, you'd be surprised the number of admirers it's got.  They should come and have a few 'J. S. Bach's Organ Works!' sessions with Messrs. Premont and Marc. 

[Marc]

Now I am glad that I have finally uploaded something worthy. Saw somebody loaded Chapuis' performance of the 'wedge' fugue at youtube, and thought it might be ok to post it here for a neck-to-neck comparison with the current no. 4

[YouTube-link of Chapuis]

In comparison it does sound a bit..hmm...like a chugging train?   
Also, reading a bit of the comments on the youtube page, you'd be surprised the number of admirers it's got.  They should come and have a few 'J. S. Bach's Organ Works!' sessions with Messrs. Premont and Marc.

I think the Zwolle organ isn't the easiest instrument to record, either (high pitch).
About Chapuis admirers: why not? AFAIK, he's a rather famous Bach organist worldwide.
In the summer of 2009 I talked with a man who enjoyed Guillou's recording of BWV 565 most .... to each and everyone their own.

Here's another complete BWV 548 in E-minor. This composition is definitely one of my favourite Bach works.

Is it played in an acceptable way here?

http://www.mediafire.com/?5x944y5p9b2bc9y

[FideLeo]

Here's another complete BWV 548 in E-minor. This composition is definitely one of my favourite Bach works.

Is it played in an acceptable way here?

http://www.mediafire.com/?5x944y5p9b2bc9y

Thanks!  I cut right to the beginning of the fugue and found some pretty breezy tempo.  Will have a decent listen later. 

[jlaurson]

In the summer of 2009 I talked with a man who enjoyed Guillou's recording of BWV 565 most .... to each and everyone their own.

Ahh... that statement alone gives me the creeps. As does Guillou or the thought of his playing. Was he ever good as a young man to have gotten any of that (presumed) fame?

[Que]

Post Scriptum -> about the thread title: has that exclamation mark been there all the time?

Nope.  My little nudge towards all the previous puns on the thread title...

Great fun that this thread has come to live again!

Q

[FideLeo]

Ton Koopman plays the 'wedge' 

http://www.youtube.com/v/DZCn8B7U7nM

It is quite similar to the track Marc posted a while back (see above) in style and basic mood. 

[Antoine Marchand]

My top three also, with the exception that I am a little in doubt, whether I should rank Foccroulle or Alain II (despite her use of modern organs) as no.3. The other would then be no. 4.

Not even a mention for Walcha... It's a bit disheartening, guys! Specially considering that Premont has been a principal influence to discover this master musician. I would even doubt if to exclude one of his integrals from the top three!

I just have thirteen complete sets -and two of them have been recently acquired, so I have not listened to those two at all-, but today Foccroulle and M-C Alain are my second and third choices after Walcha. Unfortunately, I don't own any disc by Kooiman or Beekman.

Why Walcha? Well, there are several reasons.

I began to listen to seriously organ music rather recently, I would say five years ago and my epiphany came in when I was aware that this music is probably the most personal of all Bach music... Never Bach is more Bach that when he is seated at the organ and I have never listened to another organist able to convey at the same time the ethic (moral) and aesthetic power of this music at the high degree as Walcha is able to do it. Everything seems originally thought by him from the very beginning.

Generalizing is never good. 0:)
Still, generally writing , my favourite Bach musicians weren't born in the UK.
I've listened to at least four Brittany organists in Bach (Hurford, Herrick, Preston and Bowyer), and they don't make it into my top ten.
Which doesn't mean they have nothing to offer!

I agree about Hurford, Preston and particularly Bowyer, but I think Herrick is in a different league. I wouldn't have problem to give him a place among my top tens. Anyway, I know I will be alone here. 
 

[Marc]

Mmm, I really can't say anything about Bach being more or less Bach with this or that instrument. I just don't know.

I listen with pleasure to Christopher Herrick. He's certainly the most poetic of the four Brits. But Hurford offers a little more variation.
On a scale from 1 to 10 I'd give Herrick at least a 7 or even 7,5. Which shows that I rate all these interpreters rather high.
But yes, I do have my personal tastes and faves.

About Walcha: check my racing commentary: he's within the first twelve!
IMO Walcha's essential; delivery and contrapunt are always clear and convincing. His recording of Die Kunst der Fuge is a must-have, IMO.
Sometimes I have difficulties with his use of registrations and dynamics, especially in fugues of the 'free' preludes et al. It gives me the feeling of disappointment: please Helmut, don't do that, keep on rockin'!
But he's definitely an 8+.

[Marc]

Ahh... that statement alone gives me the creeps. As does Guillou or the thought of his playing. Was he ever good as a young man to have gotten any of that (presumed) fame?

I dunno that much about Guillou. But what I heard of his Bach did not please me at all. The man whom I had the little chat with was more of the organ spectacular kind. He needed at least an instrument with 32ft pedals, he told me.