J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Ken B]

  Rumour has it though that once you have been "Walcha-ed "you never go back. 

Teach men not to Walcha.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Unlike, or so it seems, everybody else I actualy do like Ton Koopman - very much so. Whether his early Novalis recordings (reissued by Brilliant), his incidental DG/Archiv recordings or his Teldec set, I like it. Though I am suprised about the remark of him being "dull" - usually criticism goes into the exact opposite direction: too jittery, too fussy, too free, too much use of embellishments. I
like the Teldec set best: matured but still imaginative and steady enough for my taste.

To clarify: I find the registrations dull, the phrasings eccentric.

[(poco) Sforzando]

  Personally I love the Peter Hurford set. The phrasing is so clear and direct- none of this Koopman embellishment business.  But unless you don't mind downloads good luck finding CD versions at an affordable price as it has gone out of print.

Aye. On US Amazon, you can find "new" copies for 756.99, 1,674.01, and 1,989.90. Plus shipping. And a few used copies from 137.96. Plus shipping.

[Wakefield]

For the non-existing "dream" cycles in my mind, I would like to nominate new young Dutch kid on the block Leon Berben and German organist Felix Friedrich...

I think I would enjoy Friedhelm Flamme playing some Bach. I know his JSB "Incerta": a disk of works of questionable authenticity and it's delightful. 

[RebLem]

I have Kevin Bowyer (19 Nimbus CDs) and Marie Claire Alain--I think its III.  I think I still have another Alain cycle packed away in cardboard boxes on MHS LPs (probably Alain I?)  I also have lots of abbreviated cycles--about 8 CDs of Anthony Newman, and a few singles and doubles here and there.  Peter Hurford did a complete set, but there is also a 2 CD set of Hurford doing just the most popular of Bach's organ works; I have that, but not the complete set.

To me, Alain is tops.  Most of Bach's organ works are not among his better works, and one complete set and a smattering of single or double discs by a few others ought to fill the bill for all but professional organists and people who are just obsessive compulsives about Bach organ music.  For me, the complete Alain coupled with a few supplements from other artists is enough.

[Ken B]

I have Kevin Bowyer (19 Nimbus CDs) and Marie Claire Alain--I think its III.  I think I still have another Alain cycle packed away in cardboard boxes on MHS LPs (probably Alain I?)  I also have lots of abbreviated cycles--about 8 CDs of Anthony Newman, and a few singles and doubles here and there.  Peter Hurford did a complete set, but there is also a 2 CD set of Hurford doing just the most popular of Bach's organ works; I have that, but not the complete set.

To me, Alain is tops.  Most of Bach's organ works are not among his better works, and one complete set and a smattering of single or double discs by a few others ought to fill the bill for all but professional organists and people who are just obsessive compulsives about Bach organ music.  For me, the complete Alain coupled with a few supplements from other artists is enough.

I found Newman borderline deranged. Some of the tempi are so fast he slurs triplets etc. an organist friend asked me if I thought that was how it should sound, and was glad when I said I didn't think so!

[kishnevi]

Superlove to Vernet.
Focroulle is good. 
I happen to like Preston; it was my first set.
Alain II is good except for the chorales, where she seemed to be turning out music required by her contract.
The multi artist cycle on Hanssler (as part of their Complete Bach Edition) is generally good quality.
Koopman...come to think of it, I am underenthused by his Teldec cycle, although the sung chorales add interest.
Kibbie is worth the money you pay for his cycle.

That is every cycle I have.  The one I would suggest without reservations is Vernet, although I can see why the pricing is a problem. The set does come with three bonus CDs.

[SonicMan46]

OK - NOW, I'm really interested in getting the Vernet performances, but how @ a decent price - the physical CDs are just not available @ a decent cost, SO are there any download options?  I've been searching a little today and found few if any choices - BUT, one exception is shown below - this looks like an illegal site to me, i.e. the DLs are FLAC of all 19 CDs - and a price is charged but seems minimal - any thoughts?  Dave

[Que]

Most of Bach's organ works are not among his better works

Looks muuuuuch better this way.... 

Anyway,  I didn't mention the Hanssler set probably because it has multiple performers (and I do not own it as a single set but have most volumes), but it is quite a good and interesting set overall, and well recorded.

Q

[Harry]

Looks muuuuuch better this way.... 

Anyway,  I didn't mention the Hanssler set probably because it has multiple performers (and I do not own it as a single set but have most volumes), but it is quite a good and interesting set overall, and well recorded.

Q

Good correction, I was absolute flabbergasted reading this, not amongst his better works indeed.

[Harry]

So we all wait until Vernet is re-issued, which will happen after all the love shown on this thread 0:)

[prémont]

I think I would enjoy Friedhelm Flamme playing some Bach. I know his JSB "Incerta": a disk of works of questionable authenticity and it's delightful. 

Agreed.

His complete North German organ encyclopædia ought to include a complete Buxtehude set, and if "complete" may be  taken litterally even some Bach.

[Harry]

Agreed.

His complete North German organ encyclopædia ought to include a complete Buxtehude set, and if "complete" may be  taken litterally even some Bach.

Friedhelm Flamme is no doubt a good organist, and I have some of his North German organ series. Still I can take Flamme only in small doses, for his art of playing is one that irritates me at times. For Buxtehude we might safely turn to Harald Vogel and others, and as for Bach, well I shudder at the thought.

[Mandryka]

I was quite surprised at Harry's's strong reaction because there are some things by Flamme which I like a lot - eg Weckmann's Es ist das heil uns kommen hier. I keep meaning to explore his Praetorius CDs.

[Harry]

Friedrich Flamme, yes, well, I am not the only one that has this problem with him, Que for one has the same doubts about the way he plays. And for that matter its rather hard to explain this, words to find to cover the aversion. But let me try. I find his style often to be edgy, a certain nervousness in his playing, accents which he gives too much weight,  too much of his personality, the way he handles dynamics etc etc. His technique is devoid of warmth, even harsh at times. This said, I have cd's from his hand, and I can mildly enjoyed them, but will never love them.

[Sammy]

To me, Alain is tops.  Most of Bach's organ works are not among his better works, and one complete set and a smattering of single or double discs by a few others ought to fill the bill for all but professional organists and people who are just obsessive compulsives about Bach organ music.  For me, the complete Alain coupled with a few supplements from other artists is enough.

It always strikes me how opposite our respective views are on everything (social, political and musical).  Anyways, I think your comment about "obsessive compulsives" is rather over-the-top.   There's nothing unusual about a Bach organ works enthusiast owning many more recordings than you recommend.  What's good for you is just, well, good for you.  Have a good day in warm Albuquerque and make sure to drive in the proper lanes.

[prémont]

I was quite surprised at Harry's's strong reaction because there are some things by Flamme which I like a lot - eg Weckmann's Es ist das heil uns kommen hier. I keep meaning to explore his Praetorius CDs.

I had identical feelings like you. Well, Flamme is in some areas an acquired taste, which I fortunately have acquired by now. F.i. I had some problems with his Böhm set, but particularly his Weckmann set and his different Prætorius sets I found immediately appealing.

[Ken B]

Good correction, I was absolute flabbergasted reading this, not amongst his better works indeed.

I thought it unworthy of retort or notice, and best discreetly passed over in silence, like your senile great-uncle drooling into his soup at Christmas dinner. We all have embarassing moments.

[Harry]

I have listened extensively to the Andre Isoir box, and sampled through all cd's, more than once. There are a lot of things I like. First of all I have no trouble with the amount of legato. It gives rest to the more turbulent pieces by Bach, and almost turns serene in the slower and softer pieces. Rhythmically he can be very imprecise, almost chaotic in the deliverance of complex Praeludiums and Fugas. Not always but frequently, this disturbs me. He can linger in such a way that coherence is lost, and the music drifts off in undefinable realms. All in all I think it is a good set, but I will take it off my list to buy this. The price for this set is still to high for me. The recordings from 1971-1991, are sometimes very good, but there are clearly some very bad ones. And the choices he made for certain organs, is something which bothers me also, though not all of them.

[Mandryka]

I have listened extensively to the Andre Isoir box, and sampled through all cd's, more than once. There are a lot of things I like. First of all I have no trouble with the amount of legato. It gives rest to the more turbulent pieces by Bach, and almost turns serene in the slower and softer pieces. Rhythmically he can be very imprecise, almost chaotic in the deliverance of complex Praeludiums and Fugas. Not always but frequently, this disturbs me. He can linger in such a way that coherence is lost, and the music drifts off in undefinable realms. All in all I think it is a good set, but I will take it off my list to buy this. The price for this set is still to high for me. The recordings from 1971-1991, are sometimes very good, but there are clearly some very bad ones. And the choices he made for certain organs, is something which bothers me also, though not all of them.

I think at the very least you should hear Isoir's Art of Fugue. As far as I recall that's the one JSB recording of his that I really value, even though I can think of at least half a dozen AoFs I'd rather hear.