J.S. Bach on the Organ

Started by premont, April 29, 2007, 02:16:33 PM

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bioluminescentsquid

#3180
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ngr3kqEe0lVi-9K9eR_OQEx_WyRgnEn3Y

The smaller CUIII chorales and several smaller free works on a 1765 Johann Baptist Hilgers organ in the Lutheran church in Vaals, South Netherlands.

The organ is small (10 stops on a single manual) but is very sweet and colorful. It also sounds much bigger than it is, and really sings beautifully in the room. I think it's a very compelling mix of intimacy and grandeur!

Leenders' playing is clean and honest, bringing to mind Bram Beekman. Unpretentious, just like this humble little Lutheran organ.

Here, you can see picture of the little "box pedal" on this organ! Not something to play BWV 540 on :)
https://www.dekopermolenvaals.nl/nl/nieuws/nieuwsberichten/hans-leenders-speelt-bach-op-het-hilgers-orgel

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Have anybody listened to Olivier Latry's Bach recordings? Any opinion or impression?

bioluminescentsquid

#3182
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 01, 2020, 07:45:38 AM
Have anybody listened to Olivier Latry's Bach recordings? Any opinion or impression?

Free-spirited, romantic Bach, "screw all those soulless white-lab-coat calvinist academic-ivory-tower HIP people", "liberal application of swell pedal" sort of Bach. I have to say I'm mostly impressed by the big pieces that need all the bravado and spanish trumpets that they can take, rather than the quieter things where I prefer a closer and more intimate sound.
Even if I'm too much of a soulless white-lab-coat calvinist academic-ivory-tower HIP person to listen to it regularly, it's music making of the highest order. The passacaglia is a killer.

Edit: I'm talking about his Bach to the future. Haven't heard anything else from him - he has some live performances on Neo-Baroque Fritts organs but they sound rather cold and "correct", oddly enough.

bioluminescentsquid

#3183
Being impressed by Friedhelm Flamme's recent Buxtehude recording (full of big bravado moments where he gets to take his 32' reed out for a walk), I wondered how he would fare in Bach. Against Harry's better judgement I decided to give this one a try.
I remember Mandryka comparing Flamme to Koopman, which I didn't understand at first. Now it makes sense, they both try to drive the music forward bull-whacker style, except Flamme is otherwise quite deadpan and Koopman noodles all over the place.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lYBsr5ab1P02fXIxIf0fXV2iAUZu4BBDU

This one's a mixed bag, being all the little pieces which may or may not be Bach that no one plays anyways. His playing is similarly mixed, sometimes being downright boring (even weird, like the registration in BWV 667) and other times charming in a direct way (sort of like Piet Wiersma). The Treutmann, which he has been playing almost everything on (Praetorius? Lübeck? Buxtehude etc.) is again very colorful and definitely is built for this sort of music, rather than Praetorius.

Here's also a fast and angry BWV 566 - for me certainly in the bottom quartile of performances I've heard of this seldom-played but brilliant prelude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J4Ig8IYTb8

That being said, I'd like to hear him play more Bach, especially his major works. Maybe some more fast and angry stuff - BWV 542 or 548?

SurprisedByBeauty

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 01, 2020, 07:45:38 AM
Have anybody listened to Olivier Latry's Bach recordings? Any opinion or impression?

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on September 01, 2020, 08:31:02 PM
Free-spirited, romantic Bach, "screw all those soulless white-lab-coat calvinist academic-ivory-tower HIP people", "liberal application of swell pedal" sort of Bach. I have to say I'm mostly impressed by the big pieces that need all the bravado and spanish trumpets that they can take, rather than the quieter things where I prefer a closer and more intimate sound.
Even if I'm too much of a soulless white-lab-coat calvinist academic-ivory-tower HIP person to listen to it regularly, it's music making of the highest order. The passacaglia is a killer.

Edit: I'm talking about his Bach to the future. Haven't heard anything else from him - he has some live performances on Neo-Baroque Fritts organs but they sound rather cold and "correct", oddly enough.

Sounds about right. Haven't heard a ton of Bach from him (and none live, that I remember), but did review his Bach-recording from Notre Dame for ClassicsToday:

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/bach-before-the-fire-latry-on-notre-dames-cavaille-coll-organ/

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#3185
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on September 01, 2020, 08:31:02 PM
Free-spirited, romantic Bach, "screw all those soulless white-lab-coat calvinist academic-ivory-tower HIP people", "liberal application of swell pedal" sort of Bach. I have to say I'm mostly impressed by the big pieces that need all the bravado and spanish trumpets that they can take, rather than the quieter things where I prefer a closer and more intimate sound.
Even if I'm too much of a soulless white-lab-coat calvinist academic-ivory-tower HIP person to listen to it regularly, it's music making of the highest order. The passacaglia is a killer.

Edit: I'm talking about his Bach to the future. Haven't heard anything else from him - he has some live performances on Neo-Baroque Fritts organs but they sound rather cold and "correct", oddly enough.

Thank you for the post. I will order Bach to the Future (though not thrilled by the innovative and fashionable title). I think he has released 7-8 albums of the Bach works.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on September 02, 2020, 12:09:54 AM
Sounds about right. Haven't heard a ton of Bach from him (and none live, that I remember), but did review his Bach-recording from Notre Dame for ClassicsToday:

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/bach-before-the-fire-latry-on-notre-dames-cavaille-coll-organ/

Yes I have read the review, and have been wondering if I should order it. I will get the disc.

milk

I'm trying to get more seriously into Bach's organ music. I was wondering what techniques are specific to the organ and what limitations there are compared to other keyboard instruments. What is it that you look for in a performance of this genre? I'm guessing that rubato is not possible on an organ in the same way it is on a harpsichord?
I've listened to too much of Bach's non-organ keyboard oeuvre. There is an embarrassment of riches in Bach's organ music. I used to gather favorites together but now I'm just trying to listen to it either randomly or more completely.

Mandryka

Quote from: milk on October 30, 2020, 03:26:08 AM
I was wondering what techniques are specific to the organ

The obvious one is colour, registration.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

staxomega

Quote from: Traverso on April 02, 2020, 07:34:14 AM



There is good news for organ aficionados,in time there will be a new edition of the Bach / Beekman recordings.




Piet Lindenberg is working on a reissue of the integral recording of Bach's organ oeuvre by the recently deceased organist Bram Beekman.

That reports The Organ Friend in the latest issue. Between 1990 and 1996, Beekman recorded for the LBCD van Lindenberg label all organ works by Bach, played on fourteen historical organs, on nine double CDs. The series has been sold out for years.

Piet Lindenberg has now planned to re-release the entire series in a collection box with textbook, possibly in combination with Beekman's recording of the complete organ oeuvre by César Franck. The cost of the collection box, which should be released next year, will be less than 100 euros.

Interested parties can report to the publisher via pietlindenberg@solcon.nl.


Because other activities took a long time from 2003 onwards, LBCD production almost came to a halt. In 2008 the curtain fell on the store in Rotterdam; a third party at that time managed to improperly annex the LBCD stock. Everything appeared to have ended up in the ram before appropriate measures could be taken. However, the rights and production materials are still owned by Lindenberg Productions BV and owner Piet Lindenberg has decided to revive the label again in 2019. In the older generations, mentioning LBCD is still a direct indication of recognition. There is therefore every reason to continue in the same way (quality and information) and also to introduce the new generation (s) to the label. In addition, the new possibilities of making earlier productions available through streaming are also being examined.

https://www.lindenbergproductions.nl/over-ons/

https://www.rd.nl/muziek/heruitgave-bachintegrale-organist-bram-beekman-1.549733

Anyone know of any updates or progress on this? Thanks.

premont

#3190
Also the action of most organs is marginally slower than the action of a harpsichord, particularly as to the pedal pipes (they speak slower). This means that ornamentation and to some extent fast runs can't be executed equally brilliant as on a harpsichord.

And on an organ a note sounds from you press the key and until you lever it, whereas the sound dies away on a harpsichord rather fast after you have pressed the key,. This has important implications for the articulation.
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milk

Quote from: Mandryka on October 30, 2020, 06:07:38 AM
The obvious one is colour, registration.
Right. And that changes with the period. I guess I have to read up on the history of organs. How does one assess this though? It seems like there are too many possible registrations.

milk

Quote from: (: premont :) on October 30, 2020, 06:59:31 AM
Also the action of most organs is marginally slower than the action of a harpsichord, particularly as to the pedal pipes (they speak slower). This means that ornamentation and to some extent fast runs can't be executed equally brilliant as on a harpsichord.

And on an organ a note sounds from you press the key and until you lever it, whereas the sound dies away on a harpsichord rather fast after you have pressed the key,. This has important implications for the articulation.
Interesting. Yes it seems less flexible in a way but endlessly flexible in terms of color and grandeur.

Mandryka

Quote from: milk on October 30, 2020, 07:05:08 AM
Right. And that changes with the period. I guess I have to read up on the history of organs. How does one assess this though? It seems like there are too many possible registrations.

Yes so the organist has to make some decisions about that, at least if he's playing Bach. That's all part of the fun, a big part.

Another thing about organs is that they can be loud, and in some of the music that's important.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

bioluminescentsquid

Jörg Halubek's second volume out of his Bach Integrale has been released, featuring the Leipzig chorales on the reconstructed 18th century organ in Ansbach. Good, no-nonsense playing, more Central German chiff-chaff-chuff for the lovers of it.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lXdTjsYOQSB6_2iFb5OOtW7Mv07SK73jA

Mandryka

#3195
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on November 07, 2020, 04:48:51 PM
Jörg Halubek's second volume out of his Bach Integrale has been released, featuring the Leipzig chorales on the reconstructed 18th century organ in Ansbach. Good, no-nonsense playing, more Central German chiff-chaff-chuff for the lovers of it.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lXdTjsYOQSB6_2iFb5OOtW7Mv07SK73jA

Well that's a colourful organ to choose for these preludes. A quick look at France-orgue shows that Reine Goede had recorded them there before. I must say, the sound is so completely unexpected that I've gone into shock listening. I'm going to have a sniff of the smelling salts and listen to some of Rübsam on Naxos playing the same music to reinstate my confidence in Bach. 

https://france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.fra.rch&org=&tit=&oeu=&ins=Ansbach&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Rechercher&edi=
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

And having now listened again to some of the Rübsam I have a question: why does everyone play the last bit of BWV 656 quickly? Everyone, that is, apart from Rübsam on Naxos.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2020, 12:42:04 AM
And having now listened again to some of the Rübsam I have a question: why does everyone play the last bit of BWV 656 quickly? Everyone, that is, apart from Rübsam on Naxos.

There is no indication that the basic tempo should change during the piece. Even the 9/4 section in versus 3 should have the same basic tempo. Never-the-less it is natural to slow a bit down in the chromatic part of that versus and then resume the original tempo afterwards.
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Mandryka

Quote from: (: premont :) on November 08, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
There is no indication that the basic tempo should change during the piece. Even the 9/4 section in versus 3 should have the same basic tempo. Never-the-less it is natural to slow a bit down in the chromatic part of that versus and then resume the original tempo afterwards.

I think what Rubsam does sounds really good though -- I'm  not saying it's the only way, but it is a good way.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

bioluminescentsquid

Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2020, 09:32:53 AM
I think what Rubsam does sounds really good though -- I'm  not saying it's the only way, but it is a good way.

I don't think Rübsam changes tempo at that section, he just plays everything at a net slower pace. I like it - too many rushed 656's out there.

I can't tell if your Halubek comments are an endorsement or not. I like Kensuke Ohira on the same organ: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mk9LYlS9g01BRcNusQBH-XjBVu5xS0JHY Yes, very colorful.