J.S. Bach on the Organ

[prémont]

Koopman by all means,  but I think you would find more food for thought if you bought all of Wolfgang Rubsam's organ CDs on Naxos.

Both these gentlemen's recordings are a hit or a miss. But I agree that Rübsam's interpretations are more rewarding, as long as you do not have too many idiosyncrasies.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Koopman by all means,  but I think you would find more food for thought if you bought all of Wolfgang Rubsam's organ CDs on Naxos.

Both these gentlemen's recordings are a hit or a miss. But I agree that Rübsam's interpretations are more rewarding, as long as you do not have too many idiosyncrasies.

The only thing between me and Rübsam's Naxos cycle is the lack of a box-set. But knowing Naxos, that's not forthcoming. No money to be had, selling box sets. The little I have of it, I quite liked -- with the above-mentioned caveats in mind. I also like the much plainer but still very involving Rübsam on Philips, but that can't be a recommendation until it comes back into print, if it ever will.

[Marc]

I have the complete sets by Fagius and Foccroulle but I'm thinking of adding one more. From what I've read, Koopman's set on Teldec/Das Alte Werk sounds as though it might be quite different to what I have, so I'm leaning towards that one. Any thoughts? [...]

Considering the well-thought advices so far, I think there's no escape: you have to get both Koopman (Teldec) and Rübsam (Naxos).

[amw]

You mean the whole thing on organ? If so, then no recommendations from me without reservations - but you may want to try Robert Costin. Just don't expect too much.

Hmm, guess WTC on organ is not such a popular idea—there are fewer recordings than I would have thought. I'll do some listening soon.

[prémont]

A Survey of Bach Organ Cycles

A few comments. You warn against the Membran release of Stockmeier's set. However it is in better sound than the Music and Arts release. Which tells me, that Membran must have licenced it and had access to the original tapes.

Concerning available complete sets (whether recommendable or not) I would add:

Stefano Molardi
Tomasz Adam Nowak

Concerning ongoing cycles (you mention Schauerte):

Joan Lippincott (more than halfway through)
Kei Koito (five volumes so far)
Kåre Nordstoga  (more than halfway through)
David Goode (four volumes so far)
Robert Quinney (3 volumes so far)
Stephan Farr (1 volume so farr)

and maybe

Jolanda Zwoferink (two volumes)

[Karl Henning]

You're welcome.

The entries at that part are in very quick succession, one after the other, going from soprano to bass in descending order.  Yes, I meant that you can hear the motif used in inverted form just as a way of continuing the texture earlier on, rather than as an independent subject.

Looking at the score of the piece, I'm not at all surprised that it's considered difficult to follow.  In addition to the constant activity, the harmony is quite wayward at moments.

Bach might have been really great, if only he had written more melodically.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Mandryka]

Tastes differ. Costin is just the one, I would put at the bottom.

Agreed, that none of the five available versions is ideal. On my part I prefer Thiery by a narrow margin. He is the only one who does not treat a substantial number of the P&F's as great organ pieces.

What are the five? Costin, Boccaccio, Thiry, Lagace and . . . who?

[Mandryka]

I have the complete sets by Fagius and Foccroulle but I'm thinking of adding one more. From what I've read, Koopman's set on Teldec/Das Alte Werk sounds as though it might be quite different to what I have, so I'm leaning towards that one. Any thoughts?

I was listening to the Prelude and Fugue BWV 547 from Foccroulle's set this evening. It's a great piece, but during the fugue I was wondering where the inverted version of the subject comes in. There's certainly a point where the music noticeably changes, but such is the relentless density of the contrapuntal texture that it's hard to make out exactly what the inverted subject sounds like (the description of the fugue on allmusic notes that it can be "difficult for the listener to find a foothold in the piece"!). Anyone have a link that points it out? I've come across various articles which require a level of knowledge of music theory that I don't have, so it would be useful to actually hear this thing. Any help appreciated!

The other one to seriously think about is Walcha (Alkmaar) -- I forgot about it earlier, I just think it' s so rewarding you should get it NOW.

[bioluminescentsquid]

Koopman by all means,  but I think you would find more food for thought if you bought all of Wolfgang Rubsam's organ CDs on Naxos.

Koopman ranges from brilliant, "definite" recordings such as the Big Preludes & fugues, Schubler chorales, Concertos, or Trio sonatas ( although I personally prefer John Butt) to average, such as his Clavier Ubung III, to rather boring, such as anything he played on the Zupthen organ (quite a boring sounding instrument in itself). His older set, reissued by Brilliant, is quite nice too.

Kooiman on Aeolus is excellent so far I heard, although it's somewhat absurdly expensive compared to all the others.

Although I have the mp3's now, I'm still hoping that Bram Beekman's set will see daylight again.

Is Kei Koito shooting for an integral?

[Marc]

[...]
Concerning ongoing cycles (you mention Schauerte):
[...]
and maybe

Jolanda Zwoferink (two volumes)

Make that three.

(But I doubt if she's planned a complete set.)



https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Organ-Works-ZWOFERINK-JOLANDA/dp/B00WTNST22/?tag=goodmusicguideco

[prémont]

What are the five? Costin, Boccaccio, Thiery, Lagace and . . . who?

Desenclos.

[prémont]

Make that three.

(But I doubt if she's planned a complete set.)

So do I, and this is why I wrote MAYBE

[prémont]

Is Kei Koito shooting for an integral?

The series is called Bach Masterworks, but it includes more and more "lesser" works, so this may indicate, that they will go on.

[Marc]

Koopman ranges from briljant [...] to rather boring, such as anything he played on the Zupthen organ (quite a boring sounding instrument in itself). [...]

https://www.youtube.com/v/8_v_h3PfA8Q

[SurprisedByBeauty]

A few comments. You warn against the Membran release of Stockmeier's set. However it is in better sound than the Music and Arts release. Which tells me, that Membran must have licenced it and had access to the original tapes.

Concerning available complete sets (whether recommendable or not) I would add:

Stefano Molardi
Tomasz Adam Nowak

Concerning ongoing cycles (you mention Schauerte):

Joan Lippincott (more than halfway through)
Kei Koito (five volumes so far)
Kåre Nordstoga  (more than halfway through)
David Goode (four volumes so far)
Robert Quinney (3 volumes so far)
Stephan Farr (1 volume so farr)

and maybe

Jolanda Zwoferink (two volumes)

I don't think Membran in its existence ever licensed anything properly. "Access" on the other hand, is possible. Where are the original tapes from, anyway? And wouldn't have Music & Arts, which is a legitimate outfit, had access to them? Is it really a notable improvement in A/B comparison? In any case, it's good to know, even if it goes against what I would like to be true. 

Thanks, also, for the hints about other cycles out there. Some of these are very well hidden. Kei Koito is on my radar, since I have all her Bach so far. Molardi's was coming out on Brilliant ... but has that stopped? Where do I find traces of Tomasz Adam Nowak's cycle? David Goode is no my radar; the rest, I think, are new to me and I'll be sure to stay tuned. I'll try to get the Kåre Nordstoga recordings ASAP, seeing that they are on Challenge.

[Mandryka]

I don't think Membran in its existence ever licensed anything properly. "Access" on the other hand, is possible. Where are the original tapes from, anyway? And wouldn't have Music & Arts, which is a legitimate outfit, had access to them? Is it really a notable improvement in A/B comparison? In any case, it's good to know, even if it goes against what I would like to be true. 

Thanks, also, for the hints about other cycles out there. Some of these are very well hidden. Kei Koito is on my radar, since I have all her Bach so far. Molardi's was coming out on Brilliant ... but has that stopped? Where do I find traces of Tomasz Adam Nowak's cycle? David Goode is no my radar; the rest, I think, are new to me and I'll be sure to stay tuned. I'll try to get the Kåre Nordstoga recordings ASAP, seeing that they are on Challenge.

Did you include Hans Ola Ericsson?

[Mr. Minnow]

The entries at that part are in very quick succession, one after the other, going from soprano to bass in descending order.

Ah, in that case I'm missing them. I found an animated score of the piece, on which the first entry and the entry of what sounds like the lowest voice are about ten seconds apart. I couldn't make out any other entries in that ten second interval. I'll have to dig out my Fagius set from wherever it's currently hiding, maybe the entries are more obvious on his recording. There was a piece in Foccroulle's set (I can't remember which one) on which the cantus firmus was pretty hard to hear, but I remember on Fagius's version it was almost impossible to miss.   

[Mr. Minnow]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice on adding another cycle. It seems almost every cycle has its admirers and critics (no surprise there), so there's no obvious, clear cut answer. At the moment I'm still leaning towards Koopman: partly because his set is complete, but more importantly because from an interpretative point of view he almost certainly brings something very different to the table as compared to Fagius and Foccroulle. I believe Koopman also plays on Baroque rather than modern organs, which is a plus as well. Rubsam's Naxos discs appear to divide opinion quite sharply, and while I was interested in Aeolus' complete hybrid SACD set, the price is ludicrous even if I could afford it (which I can't). Even if I do get Koopman now, maybe it's worth considering adding one of Alain's sets a bit later - is there any consensus over which is her best?

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Even if I do get Koopman now, maybe it's worth considering adding one of Alain's sets a bit later - is there any consensus over which is her best?

Well, set no.1 never made it off LPs. Set no.2 was "the" set for many and has many admirers (myself included). Set no.3 was made by her, when she had access to historical instruments (3 of the ones she included are located in the ex GDR). I had been a proponent of No.2 for  a long time, but I've since come to appreciate No.3 just as much and wouldn't want to choose between the two. If I had to, and didn't have as many other sets, I just MIGHT opt for no.3, not the least because it contains more -- and arguably more interesting -- instruments. It's kind of a toss-up, but for what it's worth: I find Koopman and Alain 2 to be closer than Koopman and Alain 3. Meanwhile, I think you should be well served with Koopman and I'd be surprised if you didn't enjoy it thoroughly.

[kishnevi]

Side note on Koopman

As a sort of context setting, he includes some of the chorales Bach arranged /harmonized for four part chorus: the choral chorales as I like to call them.

The choral chorales seem almost terra incognita, but I like them.