J.S. Bach on the Organ

Started by premont, April 29, 2007, 02:16:33 PM

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Marc

I've been mesmerized by Bach's organ for about 6 months now, and it's been a dazzling experience so far.
But summer is on its way, and maybe I need to cool down a bit.

A good choice for a cold shower ;) has been a couple of volumes of the Michel Chapuis integral. He's fast, sometimes a bit too wild I think, without the enthousiasm and expressiveness of the adolescent Koopman (IMHO), and unfortunately the 2 volumes I listened to (5 & 14) were very shrill in recording sound (recordings around 1970).

Now I listen to Chapuis, almost on a daily basis, when I'm travelling towards work. He keeps me awake! And because of the lesser quality of my disc-man incl. headphones (rather 'woolly' sound) the sharpness is almost inaudible.
The same goes for the Third Clavierübung, performed by Kevin Bowyer. Also a bit too sharp for my taste, but thanks to my modest travelling equipment I'm still able to enjoy it!

Somehow I seem to manage to make all 'my' discs worthwhile! ;D

Coopmv

My 22-CD Weinberger set is still in its cellophane, which I got from MDT at a great price some two months ago before the worthless dollar took a tumble against the pound.   >:(

premont

Quote from: Marc on June 15, 2009, 10:44:12 AM
A good choice for a cold shower ;) has been a couple of volumes of the Michel Chapuis integral. He's fast, sometimes a bit too wild I think, without the enthousiasm and expressiveness of the adolescent Koopman (IMHO), and unfortunately the 2 volumes I listened to (5 & 14) were very shrill in recording sound (recordings around 1970).

There are no volume indications in my complete Chapuis set, but I suppose you are listening to the second of the CDs recorded on the Arp Schnitger organ in Zwolle (with BWV 531, 533, 536, 537, 542, 544, 549 and 550) and the second CD rcorded on the P G Andersen organ, Sct. Bendts Kirke, Ringsted (with some Kirnberger Chorales and a few pieces without BWV).

I think the Zwolle organ may seem shrill because it is tuned in Hohe Chorton and because it has got IIRC some sharp mixtures.

Many Danish built organs from the second half of the 2000th century have got a rather sharp incisive sound quality. The ideal was to create an almost neutral instrument with the greatest possible clarity of sound, meant to be ideal for baroque polyphony. This led to a kind of standard instrument with almost clinical properties and very little individual character. Marcussen was maybe the greatest sinner (and P G Andersen who got his education by Marcussen), but even Metzler in Schweiz built organs of this kind (e.g. the by P G Andersen designed Metzler organ in the Cathedral of Geneva). Having heard the Ringsted organ and many other Marcussen organs as well as the Geneva organ on location, I think that the organs are partly to be blamed for the sharp sound of the recordings.

As to Chapuis he was never my cup of tea. Excentrical, fast and often sloppy, often using strange and almost ugly registrations and changing registrations absurdly often and without stylistical arguments.




γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Marc

Quote from: premont on June 16, 2009, 12:26:22 PM
[....] I think that the organs are partly to be blamed for the sharp sound of the recordings.

Quite possible. On the other hand: I do have Zwolle recordings that are far more better in sound.

Quote from: premont
As to Chapuis he was never my cup of tea. Excentrical, fast and often sloppy, often using strange and almost ugly registrations and changing registrations absurdly often and without stylistical arguments.

I'll take a note of that.
This I 'discovered' myself: after some more listening in the train, I find his choral recordings of volume 14 very shallow. No spiritual involvement to be heard, unfortunately.

Marc

What about André Isoir?

Today I listened to his two The Great Toccatas discs, and I certainly prefer the first one, played in 1975 on the Ahrend organ of the Lambertikirche in Aurich, Germany. I also like the Ahrend organ sound more than that of the Grenzing organ in Saint-Cyprién (Dordogne, France), where the latter was recorded in 1993.

As far as the interpretations are concerned: Isoir seems more innerly involved and more at ease with the pieces in the seventies recording. Especially BWV 565 and 542 are really a joy to listen to! There might be a certain softness in his approach, but after listening to (f.i.) George Ritchie it was some kind of a 'relief' .... well, apparently there's a Bach for each and every mood. :)
(The track index on my 1975 Isoir copy isn't correct though: one should reverse BWV 540 & 538!)

Marc

BUMPING this thread again and again. :D

No, seriously, I'm in heaven after attending a recital of Jacques van Oortmerssen, playing the Schnitger/Hinsz organ of the Martinikerk in Groningen, NL.
Buxtehude, Scheidemann, Mendelssohn, J.L. Krebs, and the finishing touch was .... the eternal Pasacaglia & Thema Fugatum in C minor, BWV 582.

Listening to organ music at home, or whilst travelling (with headphones) is all very nice, but listening to an organ like this in real life is .... (have a guess).

Jürgen Ahrend did a magnificent job in the eighties with restoring this devaluated instrument!

Marc

BUMPIN' BUMPIN' BUMPIN',
keep them organs movin' ....

Had a (very) good afternoon, again at the Martinikerk. Sietze de Vries was talking about and showing off both organs. At first the very pretty little chorus organ, built appr. 1742 by Jean-Baptiste Le Picard.

And, of course, the grand organ that was restored in the eighties by Ahrend.

After his final improvisations, a few of us were allowed to climb the small stairs and visit the holy shrine. Among them member Marc. :P
Very nice and friendly guy, Sietze de Vries, who played some marvellous improvisations and gave the visitors the entire organ with Bach's Toccata, Adagio & Fugue in C Major, BWV 564.

And now I'm gonna take a listen to Ewald Kooiman, Bach's Organ Mass. Yummy in advance ....

Coopmv

Just played this 2-CD set by Lionel Rogg, an excellent set ...


Marc

#468
Quote from: Coopmv on August 01, 2009, 09:55:16 AM
Just played this 2-CD set by Lionel Rogg, an excellent set ...
[image of Rogg's Kunst der Fuge & Vivaldi Concertos / EMI]

Part of the third integral?
EMI should finally issue this on CD.

I mean: come on, the man is a rewarded Bach interpreter.
He recorded three (more or less) integrals.
AFAIK, his first (Oryx) and third (EMI) were never released on Compact Disc, and his second (Harmonia Mundi) is officially OOP.
I have an EMI sampler (issued january 2009) and think it's quite good, but in most cases, when I read reviews about Rogg, his HM recordings are praised.

Coopmv

Quote from: Marc on August 01, 2009, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on August 01, 2009, 09:55:16 AM
Just played this 2-CD set by Lionel Rogg, an excellent set ...
[image of Rogg's Kunst der Fuge & Vivaldi Concertos / EMI]

Part of the third integral?
EMI should finally issue this on CD.

I mean: come on, the man is a rewarded Bach interpreter.
He recorded three (more or less) integrals.
AFAIK, his first (Oryx) and third (EMI) were never released on Compact Disc, and his second (Harmonia Mundi) is officially OOP.
I have an EMI sampler (issued january 2009) and think it's quite good, but in most cases, when I read reviews about Rogg, his HM recordings are praised.

Here is the other 2-CD set I got.



For years, Rogg's only other CD I have is the following CD, though I also have an 18-LP set on EMI Electrola, some German pressings I bought 25 years ago ...




Marc

Quote from: Coopmv on August 01, 2009, 12:24:22 PM
Here is the other 2-CD set I got.


Yep. That's the one I've got, too .... and even enjoy :).

Quote from: Coopmv
For years, Rogg's only other CD I have is the following CD, though I also have an 18-LP set on EMI Electrola, some German pressings I bought 25 years ago ...
[LP box cover EMI/Angel]

EMI: BURN THEM .... TO CD'S!!

Coopmv

Quote from: Marc on August 01, 2009, 12:36:55 PM
Yep. That's the one I've got, too .... and even enjoy :).

EMI: BURN THEM .... TO CD'S!!

I hear you.  I have digitized two open-reel tapes to hard-drive with quite satisfactory results.  But digitizing LP's to hard-drive is a very different matter since the clicks and pops take a bit of work to remove unless this process can be auotmated ...

Marc

Quote from: Coopmv on August 01, 2009, 12:40:23 PM
I hear you.  I have digitized two open-reel tapes to hard-drive with quite satisfactory results. But digitizing LP's to hard-drive is a very different matter since the clicks and pops take a bit of work to remove unless this process can be auotmated ...

Relax Coop. I meant to say that EMI should burn them (the mastertapes, that is)! :)

Coopmv

Quote from: Marc on August 01, 2009, 01:04:21 PM
Relax Coop. I meant to say that EMI should burn them (the mastertapes, that is)! :)

I have always wondered where all the tracks on the 18-LP set released by Electrola have gone.  BTW, was Electrola an EMI subsidiary?  I swear I have seen the name popped up in recent years as a separate company.

Marc

Quote from: Coopmv on August 01, 2009, 01:09:13 PM
I have always wondered where all the tracks on the 18-LP set released by Electrola have gone. 

I cannot answer this.

Quote from: Coopmv
BTW, was Electrola an EMI subsidiary?  I swear I have seen the name popped up in recent years as a separate company.

The EMI Electrola GmbH was founded 1972, but the history of name started 47 years before.

The Gramophone Company founded the Electrola GmbH in 1925 in Berlin. In 1931 Electrola started a Joint Venture with the Carl Lindström AG. In the same year the parent companies - Gramophone Company and Columbia Gramophone Company - merged into the Electric & Musical Industries Ltd. (EMI). In 1952 the two german EMI subsidiaries moved to Cologne and twenty years later the Carl Lindström AG merged with Electrola GmbH into the EMI Electrola GmbH.

2002 was a year of reorganisation within the german EMI companies. The EMI Electrola GmbH merged with the Virgin Schallplatten GmbH and formed EMI Music Germany GmbH & Co.

Source: http://www.discogs.com/label/EMI+Electrola

I didn't check the entire discopgraphy, but they do have Imca Marina! ;D

Coopmv

Quote from: Marc on August 01, 2009, 01:16:00 PM
I cannot answer this.

The EMI Electrola GmbH was founded 1972, but the history of name started 47 years before.

The Gramophone Company founded the Electrola GmbH in 1925 in Berlin. In 1931 Electrola started a Joint Venture with the Carl Lindström AG. In the same year the parent companies - Gramophone Company and Columbia Gramophone Company - merged into the Electric & Musical Industries Ltd. (EMI). In 1952 the two german EMI subsidiaries moved to Cologne and twenty years later the Carl Lindström AG merged with Electrola GmbH into the EMI Electrola GmbH.

2002 was a year of reorganisation within the german EMI companies. The EMI Electrola GmbH merged with the Virgin Schallplatten GmbH and formed EMI Music Germany GmbH & Co.

Source: http://www.discogs.com/label/EMI+Electrola

I didn't check the entire discopgraphy, but they do have Imca Marina! ;D

Thanks Marc.  I think this Rogg's Bach Organ Works set is not the only EMI Electrola LP-sets I have that I have never seen released on CD.

Que

Quote from: Marc on July 29, 2009, 12:02:47 PM
BUMPING this thread again and again. :D

No, seriously, I'm in heaven after attending a recital of Jacques van Oortmerssen, playing the Schnitger/Hinsz organ of the Martinikerk in Groningen, NL.
Buxtehude, Scheidemann, Mendelssohn, J.L. Krebs, and the finishing touch was .... the eternal Pasacaglia & Thema Fugatum in C minor, BWV 582.

Listening to organ music at home, or whilst travelling (with headphones) is all very nice, but listening to an organ like this in real life is .... (have a guess).

Jürgen Ahrend did a magnificent job in the eighties with restoring this devaluated instrument!

Ooooh wow! :)

This is a (very) strong reminder that I really should do this more often myself. I mean - when living in the Netherlands & loving organ music - listening to "our"  ;) beautiful organs live is practically mandatory! :o

Q

Marc

Quote from: Que on August 02, 2009, 01:58:02 AM
Ooooh wow! :)

This is a (very) strong reminder that I really should do this more often myself. I mean - when living in the Netherlands & loving organ music - listening to "our"  ;) beautiful organs live is practically mandatory! :o

To tell you the truth: I'm lazy with this myself, too. Biking to the Martinikerk is nothing really, considering the fact that I live in Groningen. But I only rarely do it (pfui mich!). On the other hand: I'm just starting! 2009 is the year of my organ (re)discovery.
If the upcoming week is going according to plan, I'll be at the Martini again on wednesday evening. Belgian organist Bernard Foccroulle will give a recital, with (a.o.) works of Schlick, Weckmann, Buxtehude and .... Bach.
 

Coopmv

Quote from: Marc on August 02, 2009, 03:28:48 AM
To tell you the truth: I'm lazy with this myself, too. Biking to the Martinikerk is nothing really, considering the fact that I live in Groningen. But I only rarely do it (pfui mich!). On the other hand: I'm just starting! 2009 is the year of my organ (re)discovery.
If the upcoming week is going according to plan, I'll be at the Martini again on wednesday evening. Belgian organist Bernard Foccroulle will give a recital, with (a.o.) works of Schlick, Weckmann, Buxtehude and .... Bach.
 

You lucky Dutch.  We Americans only have mainly second-rate organists.

Antoine Marchand

#479
Quote from: Coopmv on August 02, 2009, 04:16:35 AM
 

You lucky Dutch.  We Americans only have mainly second-rate organists.

That is not completely right, Coop. Just these days –in Chile!- I have been listening to recordings by George Ritchie, Joan Lippincott, Christa Rakich (although I don't know if she was born in the United States, but teaches and plays there). All of them excellent in Bach. Probably, you are a little bit lazy too, my friend.  ;D

P.S.: Anyway, those Dutchmen are incredibly lucky guys.  ;)