J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Marc]

Well, mon ami Lilas Pastia, when one is from près des remparts de Seville, a certain southern preference is no real surprise!

Since Bach is mainly the issue in this thread, I can only say that of your Triptych I wasn't impressed by Chapuis. In fact, it was a disappointing experience. Which, for me, is a rare occasion. The only other real disappointment was American Michael Murray.

I like Isoir, indeed because of his combination of poetry and power, but my favourite of those three is definitely Olivier Vernet. 'His' Bach certainly is a young man's passionate approach!

On two of the four 'German & Dutch' names that were mentioned I would like to say this:
Ton Koopman certainly likes to play French and Italian baroque, also in live organ or harpsichord concerts. But he's done some recording stuff, too:
http://www.tonkoopman.nl/discoblackned.htm

Gustav Leonhardt has recorded, and not only as a keyboard player, f.i. Rameau, Couperin, Frescobaldi, Monteverdi et al. He's got a rather broad taste, although he dislikes G.F. Handel very very much.
Here's a nice example of Leonhardt with a.o. Marchand and Couperin:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lorgue-Bedos-Sainte-Croix-Bordeaux-Leonhardt/dp/B00005S0ME

I can't tell that much about Tachezi and Richter, who aren't really my favourite organists. I have some Tachezi playing Mozart somewhere in my collection .... but how often do I listen to it?

One should not forget the influence of the recording labels: once a musician has made a name as a [composer's name]-interpret, in many cases the labels want this to be continued and exploit that image. But in most live concerts the artists are able to choose whatever they want to play.

[Lilas Pastia]

I have Olsson's organ music on Swedish Society - play it now and then but can't say I'm very impressed.  Reger's organ music I find more interesting.

I can certainly understand that. Olsson is a very undemonstrative composer. Lots of meditative stuff, never anything flashy. It can easily put one to sleep, I suppose  . It doesn't have the architectural solidity of Reger. Typical church musician compositions I think. He served as church organist for 50 years at Gustav Vasa Church, Stockholm. Here is what he said about himself: "I am conservative. I do not write much anymore, as my music does not suit our time any longer. I do not understand the new music - it has gone too far. And this applies to new church music, too, which puts stilization before inspiration".

I wonder if he was referring to Messiaen, here...? I think he can best be likened to Tournemire and maybe Langlais. He also wrote some very beautiful choral music. I have 3 discs of his music (Proprius, Musica Sveciae and BIS - no Swedish Society!)

[Lilas Pastia]

Well, mon ami Lilas Pastia, when one is from près des remparts de Seville, a certain southern preference is no real surprise!

Since Bach is mainly the issue in this thread, I can only say that of your Triptych I wasn't impressed by Chapuis. In fact, it was a disappointing experience. Which, for me, is a rare occasion. The only other real disappointment was American Michael Murray.

I like Isoir, indeed because of his combination of poetry and power, but my favourite of those three is definitely Olivier Vernet. 'His' Bach certainly is a young man's passionate approach!

On two of the four 'German & Dutch' names that were mentioned I would like to say this:
Ton Koopman certainly likes to play French and Italian baroque, also in live organ or harpsichord concerts. But he's done some recording stuff, too:
http://www.tonkoopman.nl/discoblackned.htm

Gustav Leonhardt has recorded, and not only as a keyboard player, f.i. Rameau, Couperin, Frescobaldi, Monteverdi et al. He's got a rather broad taste, although he dislikes G.F. Handel very very much.
Here's a nice example of Leonhardt with a.o. Marchand and Couperin:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lorgue-Bedos-Sainte-Croix-Bordeaux-Leonhardt/dp/B00005S0ME

I can't tell that much about Tachezi and Richter, who aren't really my favourite organists. I have some Tachezi playing Mozart somewhere in my collection .... but how often do I listen to it?

One should not forget the influence of the recording labels: once a musician has made a name as a [composer's name]-interpret, in many cases the labels want this to be continued and exploit that image. But in most live concerts the artists are able to choose whatever they want to play.

I think Chapuis is the most controversial of the lot. Thanks for the Leonhardt link,  I was not aware he had recorded the Convent Mass. In theory the organ chosen should be quite suited to the task - it has some lovely reedy stops. But it doesn't sound  as characterful as the southwestern organs of Carcassone or Saint-Maximin. I'll keep an eye on that one...

Back to Bach: there's a lively organ tradiiton here in Montreal, with instruments by von Beckerath, Casavant and Wolff among others. I used to be a regular at the many concerts. But IMO our organ roster has too long been dominated by players who favour a rather ascetic playing style (rythmically rigid), associated with thick registrations: Lagacé (husband and wife), Laberge, etc. IOW the make bach sound dull and antiquated.

Last year Olivier Latry was in town. He played mostly french symphonic organ music (as well he should have, playing on a Casavant instrument), as well as more contemporary stuff (Messiaen and Escaich). But he delighted me in his playing of a Bach piece (sinfonia from Canatata 29). All the colour and freshness were suddenly there. I hope he some day devotes a full disc to Bach's music.

[Bulldog]

Overall, I don't think it's a great idea to get caught up in the nationality of the organist.  It makes no difference to me whether the performer hails from France, Germany, Sweden, America or the Moon. 

This is a matter of preconceptions, and I feel it's best to leave those at the door.

[Marc]

Overall, I don't think it's a great idea to get caught up in the nationality of the organist.  It makes no difference to me whether the performer hails from France, Germany, Sweden, America or the Moon. 

This is a matter of preconceptions, and I feel it's best to leave those at the door.

Sure, but of course these countries/regions deliver a lot of musicians who are part of a cultural and/or musical tradition.
Generalizing can be helpful to make a quick survey, but in the end it's only a makeshift.
So I agree: as a listening music lover, one should at least try one's best not to think of nationalities or traditions, whilst listening.

Post scriptum: Bulldog, like your avatar today!

[Marc]

Thanks for the Leonhardt link, I was not aware he had recorded the Convent Mass.
[....]
Last year Olivier Latry was in town. [....]
I hope he some day devotes a full disc to Bach's music.

And thank you for reminding me of Latry, who in fact did devote some discs to Bach. He recorded at least 7 discs (Vols. 1-7) of a supposed (?) integral for the label Sound BNL. But I think they are officially OOP.
Here's one example (Vol. 7) at the German Amazon site:
http://www.amazon.de/Die-Triosonaten-Bwv-525-530-UK/dp/B0006HH7EE

And here's a Latry sampler, with works of other composers, too:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olivier-Latry-belles-pages-discographie/dp/B0001P2JCQ

I myself will check the music library catalogue here this month, and search if there's still one of his Bach discs available. Maybe there's a library in Montréal or elsewhere in Canada who's got some, too.

[Antoine Marchand]

And thank you for reminding me of Latry, who in fact did devote some discs to Bach. He recorded at least 7 discs (Vols. 1-7) of a supposed (?) integral for the label Sound BNL. But I think they are officially OOP.
Here's one example (Vol. 7) at the German Amazon site:
http://www.amazon.de/Die-Triosonaten-Bwv-525-530-UK/dp/B0006HH7EE

And here's a Latry sampler, with works of other composers, too:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olivier-Latry-belles-pages-discographie/dp/B0001P2JCQ

I myself will check the music library catalogue here this month, and search if there's still one of his Bach discs available. Maybe there's a library in Montréal or elsewhere in Canada who's got some, too.

Well, those trio sonatas (vol. 7) are currently available on JPC

[Lilas Pastia]

And thank you for reminding me of Latry, who in fact did devote some discs to Bach. He recorded at least 7 discs (Vols. 1-7) of a supposed (?) integral for the label Sound BNL. But I think they are officially OOP.
Here's one example (Vol. 7) at the German Amazon site:
http://www.amazon.de/Die-Triosonaten-Bwv-525-530-UK/dp/B0006HH7EE

And here's a Latry sampler, with works of other composers, too:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olivier-Latry-belles-pages-discographie/dp/B0001P2JCQ

I myself will check the music library catalogue here this month, and search if there's still one of his Bach discs available. Maybe there's a library in Montréal or elsewhere in Canada who's got some, too.

Thanks, Marc, I really had no idea Latry had recorded so much Bach (not knowing the details, but 7 discs is a half integral anyway !!).

I'll try to keep an eye - and ear! - on these. Esp. the trio sonatas, which are favourite works - I got to 'learn' them through Chapuis, BTW, in those blessed days of Telefunken Bach Edition mammoth LP releases - 2 vinyl discs in a lavish presentation (with scores, which I have kept !!). That was volume one (with assorted minor works). I also got volume 7 (Preludes and Fugues). That might explain my fondness for Chapuis' Bach  . After him - and, in  a totally different aesthetic, Karl Richter - I ventured into the HM Rogg integral. Six LPs, which 30 years ago cost me 72$ - believe me, I still  recall it vividly (I was afraid my Visa purchase would be refused ) . Big letdown in a sense (very unflashy playing), but over the years it made me appreciate the 'spiritual' side of Bach.

[jlaurson]

More Latry:
Präludien & Fugen BWV 534, 535, 543
http://www.jpc.de/image/w183/front/0/3491421128362.jpg

Choräle BWV 645-650 "Schübler-Choräle"

[Marc]

[....]
I'll try to keep an eye - and ear! - on these. Esp. the trio sonatas, which are favourite works - I got to 'learn' them through Chapuis, BTW, in those blessed days of Telefunken Bach Edition mammoth LP releases - 2 vinyl discs in a lavish presentation (with scores, which I have kept !!). That was volume one (with assorted minor works). I also got volume 7 (Preludes and Fugues). That might explain my fondness for Chapuis' Bach .

Say no more.
First love.
They can last a lifetime.
0:)

[Lilas Pastia]

Say no more.
First love.
They can last a lifetime.
0:)

[Lilas Pastia]

More Latry:
Präludien & Fugen BWV 534, 535, 543
http://www.jpc.de/image/w183/front/0/3491421128362.jpg

Choräle BWV 645-650 "Schübler-Choräle"

Thanks, Jens - more discs on the wish list!

[DarkAngel]

Best Bach boxset of organ works to start building collection out from...................
Is it the stereo Walcha/Archiv boxset or something else.........

[prémont]

Best Bach boxset of organ works to start building collection out from...................
Is it the stereo Walcha/Archiv boxset or something else.........

You might as well choose f.i. Foccroulle, Vernet, Alain or Weinberger. All are interpretations on a high level, It depends upon your taste, which I do not know. But at a certain point Walcha becomes mandatory listening for the engaged lover of Bachs organ music. But then I would consider his mono integral preferable to his stereo.

[DarkAngel]

Premont
Is there a noticeble drop in sound quality when going with the mono Walcha?
Did his style change much for later stereo set?

[prémont]

Premont
Is there a noticeble drop in sound quality when going with the mono Walcha?
Did his style change much for later stereo set?

There is a change, but not kind of deleterious . The mono sound is very good for its time.

Yes, Walchas style changed a little, the earlier version being generally more expressive.

[Coopmv]

There is a change, but not kind of deleterious . The mono sound is very good for its time.

Yes, Walchas style changed a little, the earlier version being generally more expressive.

Agree.  I enjoyed Walcha's mono set on Document last Christmas so much that I did some damage to one of my bookshelves.  My fault anyway since I have had a mismatch in the sound system in my study when I used a 240 watts/ch Conrad-Johnson power amp driving a 200 watts max Soliloquy bookshelves.  The wireless remote got stuck and unleashed a sudden burst of power during some peak passage in one of the organ pieces.

I have yet to take the somewhat impaired speaker to the shop for a checkup ...

[DarkAngel]

Great info gents...........

Should any serious thought be given to the Preston/DG & Hurford/Decca complete sets, or are they a notch below those mentioned above by Premont?

Coop........the deep bass response of these big organs is pretty impressive, speakers given real workout

[Bulldog]

Great info gents...........

Should any serious thought be given to the Preston/DG & Hurford/Decca complete sets, or are they a notch below those mentioned above by Premont?

Hurford maybe - Preston no.

[Coopmv]

Great info gents...........

Should any serious thought be given to the Preston/DG & Hurford/Decca complete sets, or are they a notch below those mentioned above by Premont?

Coop........the deep bass response of these big organs is pretty impressive, speakers given real workout

I have most of the Preston's single CD's and all the Hurford's CD's as singles again.  IIRC, Hurford's performance was somewhat on the romantic side.

Yeah, watch out if you have an amplifier and speakers mismatch - either too much or too little power will damage your speakers ...