J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Opus106]

And what about Weinberger's impeccably HIP and rock-solid cycle? (non-eccentric HIP, if you will) On the right historical organs and damn cheap too! Liked by a fair number here - search for previous discussions!

Damn cheap? I wish it was. CPO = not cheap.

[prémont]

For instance: Hans Vollenweider,

First personal impressions: very capable organist, though his interpretation is a bit shallow (cautious), with not always convincing registration choices.

Oh yes, Hans Vollenweider,  I almost forgot him. He has recorded a Bach organ integral too (in the 1970es), but I am not aware, that much of it is available on CD.

In the days of LP I somehow got hold of his Clavierübung III (label?) played on the Metzler organ in Grossmünster, Zurich, an organ I never found suited for Bach whatever the registrations (something which is confirmed by Lionel Rogg´s (first Rogg integrale) and Rudolf Scheideggers recordings on the same organ of the same work). Vollenweiders fillers were the Dorian and the Epidemic T & F played on the Schott organ in Muri. Later I got an EMI LP with four chorale free works (BWV 564 and 527 and two more I do not remember) also played on the Grossmünster organ. None of this survived my transformation to CD user, except the Clavierübung III which I burnt on two CD´s. Later I acquired his Leipzig chorales on CD (Accord).

Generally I find him technically competent, but his interpretations are unremarkable and as Marc says cautious. His choice for many of the recordings of the Grossnünster organ, where he was resident organist for many years, seems to me most unfortunate. I do not regret, that I did not spend my money upon him in time.

[Marc]

Skip HIP?!   And what about Weinberger's impeccably HIP and rock-solid cycle? (non-eccentric HIP, if you will) On the right historical organs and damn cheap too! Liked by a fair number here - search for previous discussions!

I also like the multi-interpreter cycle on Hänssler's Bach Edition: all HIP playing, some very interesting organists and a very good choice of organs that are superbly recorded. But that is no box set so more expensive - check BRO!

Marie-Claire Alain? Definitely not my taste, not a certified HIPpie
(She does not only look like a French grandmother, she also plays like one... My apologies to her fans... 0:))

Do not interfere with my advices!!


No, I like HIP, but I don't like the word HIP .... especially when I find it bothersome.

I like Weinberger, too, but he wouldn't be my first advice to someone who wanted to start with Bach, or wanted just the one integral.
But if this person is of the addicted and greedy kind like me, then of course mr. Weinberger's set will have him (or her) lick his (or her) lips very soon!
Such a LARGE box for such a SMALL price! (At some sites, that is.)
And good HIP quality playing on HIP organs!

Apologies about Alain accepted. 0:)
(Though only after a severe struggle inside.)

But I fear for Navneeth's health.
Here's my final advice:
http://www.blockmrecords.org/bach/

[Marc]

Generally I find him technically competent, but his interpretations are unremarkable and as Marc says cautious. His choice for many of the recordings of the Grossnünster organ, where he was resident organist for many years, seems to me most unfortunate. I do not regret, that I did not spend my money upon him in time.

Full agreement here, about the organ.
But I managed to get used to it whilst listening.
I'll be listening to Vollenweider's interpretation of the Leipziger Choräle, too. Just checking out both his free and liturgic skills.

[Opus106]

But I fear for Navneeth's health.
Here's my final advice:
http://www.blockmrecords.org/bach/

Yes, I already have that bookmarked, I think. Is he HIP?

[Marc]

Yes, I already have that bookmarked, I think. Is he HIP?

I'll be rushing off to this thread (again):
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15403.0.html

[Que]

I like Weinberger, too, but he wouldn't be my first advice to someone who wanted to start with Bach, or wanted just the one integral.

Why?  He does seem to have what makes a basic integral. And his playing is not tooo much out of the ordinary (not eccentric, if you will), or does that make him unremarkable?

Q

[jlaurson]

Why?  He does seem to have what makes a basic integral. And his playing is not tooo much out of the ordinary (not eccentric, if you will), or does that make him unremarkable?

I have the Weinberger and cherish it. I agree with the assessment, though. It's a library's first version, but for personal use I'd imagine it might nice to have a little more... ah... indulgence? Imagination? Which is actually why I'd find "Alain II" a rather good choice. It's got a bit more juice.

[Marc]

Why? He does seem to have what makes a basic integral. And his playing is not tooo much out of the ordinary (not eccentric, if you will), or does that make him unremarkable?

Quite right, he's not eccentric. Which should make him a good choice. But yes, I think the quality of his playing is just an itsy bitsy teenie weenie uneven, although that's not really bothering me personally.
Further more, the choice of organs might not be to everyone's likings, combined with the alternately distant and very close miking.

I think that Weinberger should be one of the first choices after a newbie has had his/her first tastes of Bach's organ music, and wants to discover more.
Also, Weinberger's integral gives the interested organ lover a nice insight in the so-called dubious and spurious works. And he gives the not-so-newcomer-anymore a chance to dig deeper into the world and the sound of historic organs.

In general though, for a start with Bach, I think Fagius, Alain and Ritchie offer the most consistent integral readings. But I'd like to add that this is not always the same as desert island readings.

[jlaurson]

I think that Weinberger should be one of the first choices after a newbie has had his/her first tastes of Bach's organ music, and wants to discover more...

...let's not forget that you can't even think of getting an integral without already having this one:



http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/03/dg-originals-review.html
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/12/best-recordings-of-2005.html

[Marc]

...let's not forget that you can't even think of getting an integral without already having this one:

[3cd-set with Karl Richter / DG Originals]

Dear Jens, we were so unisono concerning Weinberger .... but let me whisper in your ear:
I'm really not a Richter man.

[jlaurson]

Dear Jens, we were so unisono concerning Weinberger .... but let me whisper in your ear:
I'm really not a Richter man.

Lovers gained and lovers lost
in but a fleeting Moment.
He makes of Richter's Bach the most,
The other finds it torment.

[Marc]

Lovers gained and lovers lost
in but a fleeting Moment.
He makes of Richter's Bach the most,
The other finds it torment.

A very inspired example of poetic exaggeration.
Could deservedly become the bonus track of Schubert's Winterreise!

[Antoine Marchand]

Rather interesting diversity of opinions.

But what shall I think??

I would sincerely prefer that Q had reason  ... However, today I was listening to the Koopman's Trio Sonatas and Orgelbüchlein and I think I won't repeat this experience very often in the future. The organ trio sonatas seem absolutely out of character –with a dark, shadowy tone crossing the disc- and Koopman have severe problems to convey the subtle and delicate intimacy of the choral preludes. I prefer his work as a director, although he can produce some amazing moments on the keyboard, namely, as I said before, in the Leipzig Chorales. 

[Que]

I would sincerely prefer that Q had reason  ... However (...)

0:)

Your namesake will be soo dissapointed!

Q

[Coopmv]

I must emphasize the superbness of the performance of the Leipzig Chorlas, but I personally like Ton Koopman much better as a organist than as a conductor!

His Teldec Bach set proved to be very satisfactory to me. I did fear moments of too much wild, hard driven inbalanced and overly embellished playing. But that did not materialize...at all. I'm allmost through the whole set and he generally does not go over the top for my taste: very nicely articulated, and sensibly varied playing. Only in the disc with Toccata's, Preludes and Fugues the is a bit too much twiddling going on. But other than than I think it's a superb set in a suitably free, "improvisatory", well informed HIP style on just the right instruments.

Koopman's style is admittedly of a personalised nature, but....IMO that is how it should be in organ music from the Baroque - as oppose to the bland, "objectivied" and abstracted approach that was, and very much still is around. Bach didn't play that way, nor did any selfrespecting organist of his time - they all made the music their own. Just pick the organist that suits your taste!

Q

I hope political-correctness has not started to pervade in classical music as well.  Koopman is fully entitled to display his own idiosyncrasies in his interpretation and execution of Bach Organ Works.  His set is still in the shrink-wrap, which I hope to listen to before the winter is over.  I will try to finish listening to my Walcha stereo set and the Weinberger set (still in shrink-wrap as well after 9 months).

[Que]

Quite right, he's not eccentric. Which should make him a good choice. But yes, I think the quality of his playing is just an itsy bitsy teenie weenie uneven, although that's not really bothering me personally.
Further more, the choice of organs might not be to everyone's likings, combined with the alternately distant and very close miking.

All agreed. Reasons why I did put my plans to buy this set on the back burner, for now. The major attractions for me are the historical organs and the moments that Weinberger shines, which are there!

Q

[Bulldog]

I might as well add my opinion that it's not a good idea for someone new to Bach's organ music to get an integral set from one organist.  Try out a host of different artists to find those that you prefer.

[Coopmv]

b]Coop[/b]
I did not get the big megabox Bach set by Brilliant because outside of the organ works did not see anything I had to have in that set........I think

I guess you are not into Bach's orchestral and choral works like I am.  Handel Ezio by Alan Curtis, anyone?  I hope to get this set soon ...     

[Marc]

I might as well add my opinion that it's not a good idea for someone new to Bach's organ music to get an integral set from one organist.  Try out a host of different artists to find those that you prefer.

Sure. But somewhere in the back of my head I remember that the 'original' question was searching for the Holy Grail Integral.

My own experiences are rather mixed: long long time ago I started with single discs (even vinyl): Alain, Leonhardt, Power Biggs.
But I must admit: the complete Bach Brilliant integral of Fagius, was a very good intro to all(?) organ works composed by JSB.

I did mention the possibility of single discs, btw. I mean: there are so many great performers who never did an integral. Leonhardt and Power Biggs I already mentioned, and personal favourites of mine are Wim van Beek and Leo van Doeselaar.

Still, when price/quality is concerned, I think there's nothing wrong with collecting the bargain box of Fagius first. Not for a choice of organist, but for a choice of your favourite Bach organ compositions. After that, if one has fallen in love, there is a great variety of recordings to choose from.