J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Marc]

[....] Don't forget to check out the AoF by Sergio Vartolo (and his daughter) on Naxos.

Ordered it .... at the library. So hopefully I'll be able to check this one out shortly after Easter!
Have been listening to some AoF stuff last week: Menno van Delft (harpsichord, clavichord), Alessio Corti and Kevin Bowyer. All enjoyable readings, really.
I must admit that I'm growing more used to Bowyer lately .... in a positive way. Main problem remains the cold and impersonal sound of the Marcussen organ in Odense, DK. Combined with Bowyer's rather swift and straightforward playing I'm still convinced that his Bach will never be my favourite .... but, as I said, appreciation is slowly growing.

[prémont]

And having heard the Bach recording on ebs, Arte Nova should do a Bach cycle with him.

Completely agreed. But there are so many distinguished organists who´s Bach integral, I equally would like to hear:

René Saorgin, Francis Chapelet, Louis Thiery, Frantz Ramml, Holm Vogel, Rainer Oster, Martin Sander, Ulrik Spang-Hanssen, Leo van Doeselaar, Wim van der Beek, Jaroslav Tuma, Kåre Nordstoga,- to name a few.

[prémont]

Have been listening to some AoF stuff last week: Menno van Delft (harpsichord, clavichord), Alessio Corti and Kevin Bowyer. All enjoyable readings, really.
I must admit that I'm growing more used to Bowyer lately .... in a positive way. Main problem remains the cold and impersonal sound of the Marcussen organ in Odense, DK. Combined with Bowyer's rather swift and straightforward playing I'm still convinced that his Bach will never be my favourite .... but, as I said, appreciation is slowly growing.

The Marcussen organ, Sct.Hans, Odense is indeed IMO a prototype of the cold, overbright and characterless Marcussen organ, a sound in a similar vein as Bovyers playing. And in order to appreciate his non-interventionalist style fully, one must listen to Chapuis and Guillou first. 

[Marc]

Have a listen to Dutch organist Piet Wiersma (1946-2003), playing Bach on the Schnitger/Hinsz/Freytag organ of the Village church in Noordbroek, NL.
Part of the (now OOP, except for some rare copies) EuroSound series Bach in Groningen, which was left unfinished after Wiersma's sudden death.

I hope all links work well .... I'm not an experienced uploading guy.



BWV 551:
http://www.mediafire.com/?odn3jmqky2z
BWV 709:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jzwnytjjxwo
BWV 731:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0zvmmnwonng
BWV 535:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0ynkyjynikh

[Antoine Marchand]

Have a listen to Dutch organist Piet Wiersma (1946-2003), playing Bach on the Schnitger/Hinsz/Freytag organ of the Village church in Noordbroek, NL.
Part of the (now OOP, except for some rare copies) EuroSound series Bach in Groningen, which was left unfinished after Wiersma's sudden death.

I hope all links work well .... I'm not an experienced uploading guy.

The links are working fine, Marc. Thanks. I had never listened to Wiersma and he it's definitely another name to consider: expressive, intense, even dramatic. He apparently had great rhetorical skills. Beautiful recorded sound, too.    

[Scarpia]

Just managed to find a copy of the Rubsam set on Philips, which has become legendary because of how rare it is.  Preliminary sampling seems to indicate that it is quite good.  Comments?

[Opus106]

Have a listen to Dutch organist Piet Wiersma (1946-2003), playing Bach on the Schnitger/Hinsz/Freytag organ of the Village church in Noordbroek, NL.
Part of the (now OOP, except for some rare copies) EuroSound series Bach in Groningen, which was left unfinished after Wiersma's sudden death.

I hope all links work well .... I'm not an experienced uploading guy.

BWV 551:
http://www.mediafire.com/?odn3jmqky2z
BWV 709:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jzwnytjjxwo
BWV 731:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0zvmmnwonng
BWV 535:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0ynkyjynikh

Well, the link for 535 worked well. (I haven't downloaded the others yet.) Thanks.

[Marc]

Just managed to find a copy of the Rübsam set on Philips, which has become legendary because of how rare it is. Preliminary sampling seems to indicate that it is quite good. Comments?

Another OOP issue that should deserve another chance. IMO, it's one of the most inspired and consistent integrals on non-historic instruments, with a more HIP-influenced Rübsam compared to his slower and more eccentric one on Naxos.

But maybe you'd like to wait a little and check this out first. Apparently sickness (I'm having some tummy troubles right now ) is 'healthy' for the searching skills of ze human brain .... I found this interesting link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=a9bde7d5f3ec24dcab1eab3e9fa335cada2afa0b1a1c041e

[Marc]

The links are working fine, Marc. Thanks. I had never listened to Wiersma and he it's definitely another name to consider: expressive, intense, even dramatic. He apparently had great rhetorical skills. Beautiful recorded sound, too.

From the Dutch Wiki site (quick translation ): According to some he wasn't a real Bach-specialist, but others cheered him as a Bach performer with the right sense for tempi and colour. He was especially famous for his choice of registrations.

I think, in the firmly HIP-influenced Bach world in the Netherlands, some people considered him to be too romantic and not playing in the 'right' baroque style. Wiersma also played a lot of romantic and modern organ stuff and certainly did not consider himself a baroque specialist either. But he loved Bach, and he loved the old Groningen organs.

Personally, I truly love Wiersma's Bach. In some pieces I would prefer a faster tempo maybe, but I entirely share the above mentioned opinion about colour and registrations. And his chorale playing really moves me.

[prémont]

According to some he wasn't a real Bach-specialist, but others cheered him as a Bach performer with the right sense for tempi and colour. He was especially famous for his choice of registrations.

Well, I do not know what a real Bach-specialist is. I do not at all find Wiersma romantic in the usual sense of this word. He is, as far as I can hear, a fine baroque scholar, and I think his intense expressive playing is naturally elaborated from the music. And it is individual and memorable but still unidiosyncratic.

What more can one want?

[Marc]

Well, I do not know what a real Bach-specialist is. I do not at all find Wiersma romantic in the usual sense of this word. He is, as far as I can hear, a fine baroque scholar, and I think his intense expressive playing is naturally elaborated from the music. And it is individual and memorable but still unidiosyncratic.

What more can one want?

Dear Premont, full agreement here ....

Btw: last year I had a short chat with an organ builder from the Groningen area, who wasn't very fond of Wiersma's playing, either. Of course he also visited and visits organ recitals and about Wiersma's concerts he said something like if you've heard one, you've heard them all. I said: well, unfortunately I never had that privilige. And gave him a little smile. Then we both laughed. (He was a nice gentleman, with his own preferences of course.)

[Marc]

One thing Piet Wiersma could have guessed beforehand: playing the Schnitger-Timpe-Van Oeckelen organ in the Groningen Der Aa-kerk for his cycle Bach in Groningen would have been .... difficult, if not impossible. Now, in the year of 2010, this instrument has been in restoration already since 1997 .... most of the time has passed in struggling and discussing about how to deal with the project.

Here are some performances on this organ, issued in 1990 by Lindenberg Books & Music. They went bankrupt in 2008 and now their productions are all officially OOP.

Bernard Winsemius (1945) plays Prelude & Fugue in A-minor BWV 569
http://www.mediafire.com/?d4t2quylmju

Stef Tuinstra (1954) plays Chorale O Lamm Gottes, unschuldig (I think this is a keyboard setting of BWV 401)
http://www.mediafire.com/?y1mwj5yzomd

Winsemius: Trio Sonata in E-minor BWV 528
http://www.mediafire.com/?jdyynlztajn

Winsemius: Chorale Partita Christ, der du bist der helle Tag BWV 766
http://www.mediafire.com/?ozd31zymomu

Tuinstra: Prelude & Fugue in D-minor BWV 539
http://www.mediafire.com/?2kfkqzoow1g

If something is wrong with the links, pleaze let me knøw ....

[jlaurson]

Does anyone have Andre Isoir's Bach Set?
Or Volume 4 of it?

I'm looking for a CD that is described as: 3 149025 044914 (Harmonia Mundi).
I'm pretty sure that this is actually the Calliope disc here: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=130997
It should contain BWV 530 but also the Choral Prelude BWV 957. Is there a disc with Isoir that definitively contains 957?

[Antoine Marchand]

Does anyone have Andre Isoir's Bach Set?
Or Volume 4 of it?

I'm looking for a CD that is described as: 3 149025 044914 (Harmonia Mundi).
I'm pretty sure that this is actually the Calliope disc here: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=130997
It should contain BWV 530 but also the Choral Prelude BWV 957. Is there a disc with Isoir that definitively contains 957?

I have that Calliope 15-CD set.

Vol. 4 (CAL 3706 "Le monde du choral"): BWV 543, 716, 702, 572,708, 707, 720, 579, 730, 731, 574, 747, 589, 533, 733. Orgue G. Grenzing de l'abbatiale de St. Cyprien en Périgord. Recorded in 1989.

Vol. 12 (CAL 3714 "Sonate en trio 6/ Trois préludes et fugues"): BWV 530, 536, 736, 727, 653b, 943, 728, 546*, 1027ª & 1027*, 539*. Orgue G. Westenfelder de Esch-sur-Alzette/ Orgue J. Ahrend de l'église Saint Lambert d'Aurich (Frise Orientale)*. Recorded in 1979 & 1976.

BWV 957 is not included in that set; I suppose because it was considered spurious for long time.

[Scarpia]

One thing Piet Wiersma could have guessed beforehand: playing the Schnitger-Timpe-Van Oeckelen organ in the Groningen Der Aa-kerk for his cycle Bach in Groningen would have been .... difficult, if not impossible. Now, in the year of 2010, this instrument has been in restoration already since 1997 .... most of the time has passed in struggling and discussing about how to deal with the project.

I, for one, tend to get patient with the current attitude, that it is always preferable to perform Bach on an authentic organ.  I don't see what the clumsy mechanical linkages do to help the music.  Not that I don't see that the correct sonority is required, but a modern organ built to the same ideals as the organs of Bach's time would seem to me to be the ideal instrument.

[Marc]

Does anyone have Andre Isoir's Bach Set?
Or Volume 4 of it?

I'm looking for a CD that is described as: 3 149025 044914 (Harmonia Mundi).
I'm pretty sure that this is actually the Calliope disc here: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=130997
It should contain BWV 530 but also the Choral Prelude BWV 957. Is there a disc with Isoir that definitively contains 957?

Let me guess:
http://www.bayerische.staatsoper.de/upload/media/200912/28/13/rsys_29129_4b38a7880d0c7.pdf
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/05/music-of-nacho-duates-multiplicity.html
[dead link now]



I think the Bayerische Staatsoper made a mistake in their list of sources.
The Harmonia Mundi label no. is definitely OOP now. But since Isoir's integral was first published by HM in separate discs, the BWV 530 might have been part of that one.
BWV 957 was, as Ton already mentioned, no part of that integral.

Maybe the writers of the pdf-brochure forgot to add this source for BWV 957, played on a Harmonia Mundi issue:
http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Chorale-Preludes-Manuscript/dp/B000027O54/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1273383477&sr=1-1

[Opus106]

Not that I don't see that the correct sonority is required, but a modern organ built to the same ideals as the organs of Bach's time would seem to me to be the ideal instrument.

But wouldn't you also require to the acoustics of the building that housed it (which usually tends to be a large German Cathedral)?

[Scarpia]

But wouldn't you also require to the acoustics of the building that housed it (which usually tends to be a large German Cathedral)?

I read somewhere that the organs of Bach's time were normally in churches with wooden roofs, which were not particularly reverberant.  In any case, there is nothing preventing a modern organ from being installed in an appropriate venue.

[Marc]

I, for one, tend to get patient with the current attitude, that it is always preferable to perform Bach on an authentic organ. I don't see what the clumsy mechanical linkages do to help the music. Not that I don't see that the correct sonority is required, but a modern organ built to the same ideals as the organs of Bach's time would seem to me to be the ideal instrument.

Real authentic organs from Bach's time do not exist anymore.

Nevertheless I prefer Bach or any other baroque/classical composer on a (restored) historic organ, because I think those instruments deliver more colour and (indeed) sonority than the modern or most neo-classical ones.
This is just a personal preference. It's not an attitude at all, adapted from some kind of 'general' belief about some kind of 'historical truth' which claims that it is 'always preferable' to use one specific kind of instrument.

So I would say: please enjoy your own preferences, even it's Bach on a perfect sounding 21th century digital synthesizer. I do not have any problems with that. Why should I? But I prefer the 'clumsy' Schnitgers and Silbermanns.

Concerning Bach's own ideals: it's known that Bach f.i. liked the sound of the Hildebrandt organ in the Wenzelkirche at Naumburg very much. Bach and Gottfried Silbermann belonged to the main advisors. The instrument has been thoroughly restored in the period 1993-1996.  So maybe this soundclip comes close to Bach's own preferences .... check it out yourself:

http://www.mediafire.com/?zg40jrennx5

(Aria in F-Major [after Couperin] BWV 587, played by Gerhard Weinberger)

Of course this is just a small example. Volume 15 of Weinberger's integral offers a broad insight in the possibilities of this instrument:

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Organ-Works-Vol-15/dp/B0001WGEIE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1273385900&sr=1-3

Oh, btw: about the 'clumsy' mechanical linkages. Maybe it would be a nice idea to visit an organ builder in your spare time. IMHO, there's nothing clumsy about the mechanics of (neo-) historic organs.

[Verena]

I have that Calliope 15-CD set.

Hello Antoine,

How do you rate that set? Thanks