J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Mandryka]

I know Saorgin's best. I've dipped into some others, including Walcha 1 and Conti and but I prefer the Saorgin because I can listen to the whole thing. There are times when it seems integrated, as if one piece is a response to another. There's plenty of variation in tone. And there's a variety of mood, it's not relentlessly light and celebratory, though he can be that. But sometimes he can be rapt and dark too.

Oh, and a  rich complex tangy baroque organ too please.

[Coopmv]

I know what you mean when you talk about this big journey. It's just that, in general, I myself prefer mixed programs on discs with organ music, as is usually done in organ concerts, too. And from what I read so far the organ concerts in Bach's time were also combined chorale-free and chorale playing, in many cases with improvisations in between.

What Bach was up to with this unfinished organ booklet?

Well, according to the master himself, to give a beginning organist instructions as how to perform a chorale in a multitude of ways, while achieving mastery in the study of the pedal, since in the chorales contained herein the pedal is treated entirely obbligato. In honour of our Lord alone, that my fellow man his skill may hone.

That's all.

So, no instructions from JSB himself about how to listen to these chorales from one's hifi kit.

Btw, if you're interested in the hard-to-get issue of Bram Beekman, here's the official link of the record company:

http://www.zwoferinkcd-productions.nl/pages/catalogusview.php?code=3331562&pagina=index&taal=en

It's a full-priced disc (€ 19,95), but one rarely hears these works played on a Flemish 18th century organ. This one was built for the Oostkerk in Middelburg (NL) between 1780 and 1783 by De Rijckere.
Here are some pictures of the organ:

What a beautifully crafted piece of musical instrument ...

[Mandryka]

I'll just mention two Don Satz recommendations which I've been playing recently.



The first, George Ritchie's Leipzig Chorales, is very good fun, one of the funnest records of these Chorales I've heard. Real uplifting joyful playing. I love it.

I'm having a harder time with the second, Robert Clark and John Peterson playing Orgelbuchlein. It just seems a bit too bland, and I'm not sure I like the sound of the organ much, I can't get caught up in the performance as Don in his review (on bachcantatas.org) found he could. It's the sort of thing I'm going to have to go back to, maybe one day I'll open up to it.

[prémont]

I'll just mention two Don Satz recommendations which I've been playing recently.



The first, George Ritchie's Leipzig Chorales, is very good fun, one of the funnest records of these Chorales I've heard. Real uplifting joyful playing. I love it.

I'm having a harder time with the second, Robert Clark and John Peterson playing Orgelbuchlein. It just seems a bit too bland, and I'm not sure I like the sound of the organ much, I can't get caught up in the performance as Don in his review (on bachcantatas.org) found he could. It's the sort of thing I'm going to have to go back to, maybe one day I'll open up to it.

Your post in this thread actually has sent me into an Orgelbüchlein journey, but forty six sets (soon to become forty seven - adding the Kooiman memorial set) are not listened to in a few days. I have not come to Ritchie and Clarke / Peterson yet.

[Mandryka]

That was me who put the wrong image in there, I've not heard Ritchie's Orgelbuchlein, the record I have is of Leipzig Chorales. Have you heard his DVD/CD of AoF?

I'm sure you'll enjoy the Orgelbuchlein  journey premont, it's very good music.

[prémont]

That was me who put the wrong image in there, I've not heard Ritchie's Orgelbuchlein, the record I have is of Leipzig Chorales. Have you heard his DVD/CD of AoF?

I'm sure you'll enjoy the Orgelbuchlein  journey premont, it's very good music.

Thanks, and even if it was not meant as a cycle, it stands listening in one sitting very well. Most recordings present it as a cycle, but there are some organists, who -for unexplained reasons- scatter the work almost casually through an integral (W,Jacob, W.Kraft, M-C Alain III, Amade) or change the order of the individual chorales (Herrick).

[jlaurson]

...there are some organists, who -for inexplicable reasons- -unknown reasons- scatter the work almost casually through an integral (W,Jacob, W.Kraft, M-C Alain III, Amade) or change the order of the individual chorales (Herrick).

minor correction.

[Sammy]

I'll just mention two Don Satz recommendations which I've been playing recently.



The first, George Ritchie's Leipzig Chorales, is very good fun, one of the funnest records of these Chorales I've heard. Real uplifting joyful playing. I love it.

I'm having a harder time with the second, Robert Clark and John Peterson playing Orgelbuchlein. It just seems a bit too bland, and I'm not sure I like the sound of the organ much, I can't get caught up in the performance as Don in his review (on bachcantatas.org) found he could. It's the sort of thing I'm going to have to go back to, maybe one day I'll open up to it.

Sorry to hear that you're having a hard time with Clark/Peterson.  I went back and had a look at my review where I pointed out a few reasons why listeners might not care much for the performances.  In my case, I definitely did not like the performances at first.  However, upon repeated hearings, they won my heart.

[Mandryka]

Oh yes! Your review is fantastic because you're  so open about your response to the performance. And that made it irresistible for me -- I had to hear it. I just know one day I'll put it on and it'll all sound just right, perfect. (As happened with David Cates's French suites, I'm embarrassed to say!)

By the way I'm glad to see that you still like it: that shows there's something special there.

[prémont]

minor correction.

Thanks.

BTW I think my intention was to write "unexplained", so I have edited the text.

[prémont]

Have you heard his [Ritchie´s] DVD/CD of AoF?

Yes, I got it a year or so ago. Have listened only once so far. Was not particularly impressed. Found him academical and mildly uninventive. So I need relistening.

[Mandryka]

As I expected I'm starting to get more into the Clark/Peterson Orgelbuchlein.

I've been interested in some of the Passion chorales Bwv 618 - 624. Peterson laments. It's interesting to compare what he does with Rogg, who's far less rapt and tragic. He can't avoid the dissonances in Da Jesus an dem Kreuze stund for example. But I think it's true to say that there's a joyful pulse  in his playing of these  which isn't there with Peterson, at least not until Wir danken dir, Herr Jesu Christ.

Is that a theological difference do you think? Different ways of seeing the Passion story, maybe.

By the way, Orgelbuchlein has become my favourite Bach work. I think it works really well to listen to the whole thing, like a lieder cycle.

[milk]

As I expected I'm starting to get more into the Clark/Peterson Orgelbuchlein.

I've been interested in some of the Passion chorales Bwv 618 - 624. Peterson laments. It's interesting to compare what he does with Rogg, who's far less rapt and tragic. He can't avoid the dissonances in Da Jesus an dem Kreuze stund for example. But I think it's true to say that there's a joyful pulse  in his playing of these  which isn't there with Peterson, at least not until Wir danken dir, Herr Jesu Christ.

Is that a theological difference do you think? Different ways of seeing the Passion story, maybe.

By the way, Orgelbuchlein has become my favourite Bach work. I think it works really well to listen to the whole thing, like a lieder cycle.

This is also my current favorite. Following recommendations here, I acquired the Saorgin Orgelbuchlein recording. This is a really impressive recording. Interesting, exciting, powerful, varied performance...beautifully recorded on a wonderful sounding instrument.   

[jlaurson]

I haven't seen Lionel Rogg's complete(ish) very lovely second set of the Bach Organ works (Harmonia Mundi, Arlesheim Silbermann organ) that inexpensively in a while:


J.S.Bach
Organ Works
L.Rogg
Harmonia Mundi

[prémont]

I haven't seen Lionel Rogg's complete(ish) very lovely second set of the Bach Organ works (Harmonia Mundi, Arlesheim Silbermann organ) that inexpensively in a while:


J.S.Bach
Organ Works
L.Rogg
Harmonia Mundi

Something strange happens. When I click on your link, Pletnev´s Beethoven symphonies pops up.

[jlaurson]

Something strange happens. When I click on your link, Pletnev´s Beethoven symphonies pops up.

darnit. My bad. Fixed.

[Mandryka]

That's the Rogg recording I have. I didn't know he had recorded another.

Christmas was fun. I played one of my guests the  Vivaldi transcription on this CD. She was bowled over. The organ sounds very nice, dusky, colouful. I wouldn't mind hearing more stuff played on it.



Do people here all have sub-woofers? Should I investigate them?

[jlaurson]

That's the Rogg recording I have. I didn't know he had recorded another.
Do people here all have sub-woofers? Should I investigate them?

Yes... three cycles.     But the Harmonia Mundi one is the only one that made it onto CD, complete. The first got stuck on Oryx LPs, was recorded in the early 60s...  all or largely on the Zurich Metzler Organ. Then came the above set around 1970 and shortly thereafter another, now for EMI. But only bits and pieces have made it onto gEMIni re-issues. Recorded on various instruments in Switzerland and Denmark, judging from the CDs I have.

Sub-woofers are not all that necessary... unless you are really getting into organ music and must have it rattle your lunch, not just your ears.

[Mandryka]

Ok, no sub woofers for me then. Just saved another £1000.

Re this concerto, BWV 594, which got under my skin on Christmas day. I thought I'd listen to the two Rubsam recordings. The second is articulated very differently from the first. In the second there's more a sense of rhetoric as rhythm -- small units of music responding eloquently to each other. The first isn't broken up like that at all.

I thought I'd check to see if similar things are happening elsewhere so I listened to his two recordings of O Lamm Gottes, unschuldig (BWV 618) from Orgelbuchlein. And yes, there's a much greater sense of musical components in dialogue and response in the Naxos. This music's a canon, so here the interaction is partly vertical. I don't think it's too unfair to say that in the Philips he basically just goes for the big tune and all the rest is just stuff in the background. The Naxos is glorious -- really special.

I don't know whether there is generally an increased interest in rhetorical ideas in the Naxos, whether this is something which really marks his later style. Neither do I know how to make all this fit with something I think premont once said: that when the Philips AoF came out Rubsam said he was influenced by Leonhardt's ideas in the DHM recording.

[Marc]

One of my favourite chorale arrangement compositions for organ is BWV 686 Aus tiefer Not schrei' ich zu dir, which belongs to the Third Part of Bach's Clavier-Übung. It gives me the shivers.
Ton Koopman's performance, played on the great Silbermann organ of the Freiberger Dom, is very impressive.

And what about these three?

http://www.mediafire.com/?6r512bpcj273492

http://www.mediafire.com/?2w82izcaw652vkn

http://www.mediafire.com/?2186wu184euuo02

To get rid of all those happy Christmas feelings, I'm back to reality and BWV 686 again.

What about these two?

http://www.mediafire.com/?ki6agi5w85p1x9v

http://www.mediafire.com/?6k56dh7dekcaqi1

WARNING:
maybe sub-woofers are required!