J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Mandryka]

On thw topic of Alain, her Buxtehude is now cut price  on this CD



The style is as you would expect, lyrical and not at all in the grand manner. And I thought it  was quite revealing and special.

Her second Art of Fugue is also availabe now directly and cheaply from amazon in the UK at least.  I've just ordered it. As far as I know her first recording never been transfered from CD to a digital format.

[asin]B000005EAW[/asin]

[Marc]

To be released on Oct. 29th.


[....]

Europeans: it's quite a bargain at Amazon.de!

20 discs for less than €30,--!

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00CBEA5M6/

And it's worth every penny IMHO .... I personally consider Martin Lücker the weakest link, but others might think differently. Every integral has its weaknesses though. Overall this is a great set to have and enjoy!

[Drosera]

Yay, I made it through this wonderful thread! Thank you all who've contributed, I've learned a lot. Among other things:

   
• Even though there are still some wonderful sets to be had, I think the ones on my current not(-fully)-listened-to pile (Alain II & III, Koopman (Teldec), Walcha I) will tide me over for the near future.
• Nobody likes Jean Guillou
• I really should learn more about the technical side of the organ, in order to appreciate it more. Learn to know my prestants from my bombardes.
• I should go to listen to real-life organs far more often.

This last realisation is also inspired by the wonderful concert I attended last Saturday. The Christian Müller organ of De Waalse Kerk had just gotten an overhaul by Flentrop (just in time for the 'Christian Müller-year') and it was given a first outing by the three Dutch Müller-organists-in-residence. (Jos van der Kooy (St.Bavo, Haarlem), Theo Jellema (Grote Kerk, Leeuwarden) and Jacques van Oortmerssen (Waalse Kerk, Amsterdam)) Van Oortmerssen played a very nice BWV582. And what a wonderful rich and warm sounding little organ it is.

(This concert was also being recorded, but I don't know for what purpose.)

[Marc]

Yay, I made it through this wonderful thread! Thank you all who've contributed, I've learned a lot. Among other things:

   
• Even though there are still some wonderful sets to be had, I think the ones on my current not(-fully)-listened-to pile (Alain II & III, Koopman (Teldec), Walcha I) will tide me over for the near future.
• Nobody likes Jean Guillou
• I really should learn more about the technical side of the organ, in order to appreciate it more. Learn to know my prestants from my bombardes.
• I should go to listen to real-life organs far more often.

This last realisation is also inspired by the wonderful concert I attended last Saturday. The Christian Müller organ of De Waalse Kerk had just gotten an overhaul by Flentrop (just in time for the 'Christian Müller-year') and it was given a first outing by the three Dutch Müller-organists-in-residence. (Jos van der Kooy (St.Bavo, Haarlem), Theo Jellema (Grote Kerk, Leeuwarden) and Jacques van Oortmerssen (Waalse Kerk, Amsterdam)) Van Oortmerssen played a very nice BWV582. And what a wonderful rich and warm sounding little organ it is.

(This concert was also being recorded, but I don't know for what purpose.)

Drosera, welcome here.
It must have been a a great concert.

Funny you mention Van Oortmerssen in BWV 582.
It evoked some fine memories.

[....]I'm in heaven after attending a recital of Jacques van Oortmerssen, playing the Schnitger/Hinsz organ of the Martinikerk in Groningen, NL.
Buxtehude, Scheidemann, Mendelssohn, J.L. Krebs, and the finishing touch was .... the eternal Pasacaglia & Thema Fugatum in C minor, BWV 582.[....]

Van Oortmerssen has also played this piece on 'your' Müller organ for the 6th Volume of his (so far) unfinished integral.



http://www.amazon.de/ORGAN-WORKS-VOL-Oortmerssen-Jacques/dp/B00005RZZJ/

[Drosera]

Drosera, welcome here.
It must have been a a great concert.

Funny you mention Van Oortmerssen in BWV 582.
It evoked some fine memories.

Van Oortmerssen has also played this piece on 'your' Müller organ for the 6th Volume of his (so far) unfinished integral.

Marc, thanks for the welcome!

It was a very nice concert, which featured composers from Steigleder and Weckmann to Hindemith. I was surprised to hear how well Hindemith works on a baroque organ.

I must say I'm still undecided on whether to start collecting that Van Oortmerssen cycle. His choice of organs appears excellent, but there's is a kind of reserved quality in his playing that might make it work better in concert rather than on a recording.

[Marc]

[....]
I must say I'm still undecided on whether to start collecting that Van Oortmerssen cycle. His choice of organs appears excellent, but there's is a kind of reserved quality in his playing that might make it work better in concert rather than on a recording.

Well, then this issue might be to your likings:
Van Oortmerssen plays Bach, Mozart, Mendelssohn, Dupré AND Van Oortmerssen at the organ of Sint Bavo, Haarlem.



http://www.amazon.de/Jacques-Van-Oortmerssen-Live-Bavo/dp/B000G0O4UG

[Drosera]

Well, then this issue might be to your likings:
Van Oortmerssen plays Bach, Mozart, Mendelssohn, Dupré AND Van Oortmerssen at the organ of Sint Bavo, Haarlem.

Yeah, I had come across that one as well. Why not, it's interesting enough. (By the way, for second-hand stuff, amazon.co.uk usually has the friendlier shipping costs to The Netherlands.  ) Thanks!

[Kontrapunctus]

I'm enjoying this multi-channel SACD set from Aeolus. 8 Silbermann organs played by 4 organists. The sound is incredibly clear, and the performances are top notch.



For more info: http://www.aeolus-music.com/ae-en/All-Discs/AE10761-Bach-Johann-Sebastian-Complete-Organ-Works

[Marc]

I'm enjoying this multi-channel SACD set from Aeolus. 8 Silbermann organs played by 4 organists. The sound is incredibly clear, and the performances are top notch.



For more info: http://www.aeolus-music.com/ae-en/All-Discs/AE10761-Bach-Johann-Sebastian-Complete-Organ-Works

Got it for a reduced price in autumn 2012, and I agree about the high level of this Kooiman & pupils boxset. I consider it one of the best integrals available.

But it's pricey, compared to many others.

[Kontrapunctus]

Yeah, I paid about $240 for it. I have a nice multi-channel SACD system, so why not? 

[Anhang]

Pleased to find this forum.  It's always nice to know that there are others as obsessed with Bach's organ music and recordings as I am.  Of the many integral sets that I have, Alain II is probably my favorite, with Rübsam on Philips and Herrick quite high on the list.  And in the "first love is the best love" category, I still have affection for the Chapuis set.

The latest addition to the collection is the Aeolus set.  My first impressions weren't very good, mainly from the last couple of discs.  Klapprott's tempos are quite slow in BWV 540 and 538.  The opening pedal note in 540 is annoyingly loud, and the whole toccata seems in danger of grinding to a halt in several places.  But I am finding much to like elsewhere in the set and agree that the sound is exceptional.

This set covers many anhang/deest works and references Emans numbers in many cases.  I haven't been able to find an Emans listing and cross-reference anywhere.  I've compared the first few bars of these with other recordings (particularly Weinberger), and many of them appear to be from the Rudorff, Rinck and other familiar collections.  There are a number that I can't match up, though.  Does anyone know of an Emans listing somewhere?

[Marc]

[....]
Does anyone know of an Emans listing somewhere?

Anhang, welcome!
Always nice to have another lover of Bach's organ music visiting the forum once in a while.

Here's a rather reliable list of the BWV Anhang, including references to (most of the?) Emans catalogue numbers:

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/List-BWVAnh.htm

[Anhang]

Thanks for the welcome, Marc!

Unfortunately, the Emans numbers in the Aeolus set don't match up with the numbers on the bach-cantatas site.  For example, the set includes Erhalt uns, Herr, bei deinem Wort listed as Emans 63.  The bach-cantatas site shows it as Emans 62.  It's similar for several others that I've checked.  The numbers are close, but off by 1 or 2.  Are there different versions of Emans' list?  I need to find his book.

From reading the Aeolus booklet - which is quite good, by the way - it appears that Emans assigned numbers to works in the Rinck (aka Yale) Collection, including many lacking an explicit attribution to Bach.  But I gather that he did not assign numbers to the works in the Rudorff Collection, but did for some works that already had Anh II or Anh III numbers.

So it's all pretty confusing.  It's not nearly as bad as trying to figure out all the Pachelbel catalogs, but it seems to be moving in that direction.

[Marc]

Thanks for the welcome, Marc!

Unfortunately, the Emans numbers in the Aeolus set don't match up with the numbers on the bach-cantatas site.  For example, the set includes Erhalt uns, Herr, bei deinem Wort listed as Emans 63.  The bach-cantatas site shows it as Emans 62.  It's similar for several others that I've checked.  The numbers are close, but off by 1 or 2.  Are there different versions of Emans' list?  I need to find his book.

From reading the Aeolus booklet - which is quite good, by the way - it appears that Emans assigned numbers to works in the Rinck (aka Yale) Collection, including many lacking an explicit attribution to Bach.  But I gather that he did not assign numbers to the works in the Rudorff Collection, but did for some works that already had Anh II or Anh III numbers.

So it's all pretty confusing.  It's not nearly as bad as trying to figure out all the Pachelbel catalogs, but it seems to be moving in that direction.

I must admit that I had not dug that deep into the matter, but after reading your contribution my guess is that, like many other catalogues, the Emans add-ons are subjected to changes and renumbering.

[prémont]

I must admit that I had not dug that deep into the matter, but after reading your contribution my guess is that, like many other catalogues, the Emans add-ons are subjected to changes and renumbering.

Even I must admit, that I have not been that concerned about the Anhang list. A short study of the Anhang shows, that almost all the listed works are either lost or spurious/composed by other hands, so not much is left, which might be by Bach.

[prémont]

Pleased to find this forum.  It's always nice to know that there are others as obsessed with Bach's organ music and recordings as I am.  Of the many integral sets that I have, Alain II is probably my favorite, with Rübsam on Philips and Herrick quite high on the list.  And in the "first love is the best love" category, I still have affection for the Chapuis set.

Welcome Anhang, we are pleased, that you join the forum.

That "the first love is the best love" is an old truth. I suppose I am some years older than you, because my first love  - in this context - were Helmut Walcha and Walter Kraft, but I greatly appreciate Alain II and Rübsam I.

The latest addition to the collection is the Aeolus set.  My first impressions weren't very good, mainly from the last couple of discs.  Klapprott's tempos are quite slow in BWV 540 and 538.  The opening pedal note in 540 is annoyingly loud, and the whole toccata seems in danger of grinding to a halt in several places.  But I am finding much to like elsewhere in the set and agree that the sound is exceptional.

Yes. unfortunately Klapprott - who is the least impressive of the four organists - has got some of the warhorses, but none of the sets I know is ideal all through. That is too much to ask for.

[prémont]

It was a very nice concert, which featured composers from Steigleder and Weckmann to Hindemith. I was surprised to hear how well Hindemith works on a baroque organ.

I nourish the hope, that someone one day would try to play Ludus Tonalis on the organ, preferably a baroque organ in equal tuning e.g. Müller organ in Harlem or Schnitger organ in Alkmaar..

I must say I'm still undecided on whether to start collecting that Van Oortmerssen cycle. His choice of organs appears excellent, but there's is a kind of reserved quality in his playing that might make it work better in concert rather than on a recording.

Reserved quality is not the worst thing in the interpretation of Bachs organ music. I have acquired all nine volumes of his (ongoing?) cycle, and do not regret.

Welcome to the forum. Hope you will enjoy.

[Anhang]

Even I must admit, that I have not been that concerned about the Anhang list. A short study of the Anhang shows, that almost all the listed works are either lost or spurious/composed by other hands, so not much is left, which might be by Bach.

I hadn't paid much attention to it either, other than to note what different organists chose to include in their "complete" sets.  But the Aeolus set is the first of mine with some works labelled solely by Emans number, so that's what drew my attention to them.  I was curious whether these were the same works that others had performed under a different name.  I've done a bit of research on it in the past week, including a perusal of Emans' book at the Library of Congress.  A brief summary, for what it's worth:

Emans' 1997 book is a thematic catalog of organ chorales "of doubtful authenticity".  It was made in preparation for the New Bach Edition and includes works doubted both for stylistic reasons as well as alternate attributions in other sources.  His entries include incipits and a complete list of references.  He indicates the presumed composer, if known, but doesn't go into any stylistic reasons for inclusion in the list.

There are 198 entries.  Some 79 of those are for works, or variants thereof, that are included in the main BWV listing.  These include those in the Neumeister collection as well as the usual suspects in the 690-765 range.  There are 35 listings of works in the Anhang, while the remaining 84 are "deest".

Included are all 7 of the so-called Rudorff chorales (of which 6 are deest's and the other is a variant of 743) and all but two of the Rinck collection at Yale.  Emans provides a handy summary of the attributions at the end.  Krebs is named for 16 entries, Walther for 21, Pachelbel for 7, etc.  Better than half of the list do not have a presumed composer.

The listing is alphabetical by chorale title, and there are multiple entries for most titles.  This is what confused me in my earlier post.  There are 3 entries for Erhalt uns, Herr, bei deinem Wort, numbers 61-63.  Emans 62 is Anhang 40, as shown on the bach-cantatas site, but the Aeolus set includes Emans 63, which is a "deest".  The references to Emans numbers on the bach-cantatas Anhang list are correct, but limited to only those Emans listings that are in the anhang.

I haven't found a simple Emans listing on the web.  Should you find yourself curious about the list or a specific work, go to

http://www.bach-digital.de/editor_form_search-simpleworks.xml?XSL.editor.source.new=true

The Emans list is one of the "Catalogue raisonné" choices on the English(?)  version of the page.  You can then add the number in the "Number in catalogue raisonné" box or just hit search to get a complete listing.

[Marc]

[....]
I haven't found a simple Emans listing on the web.  Should you find yourself curious about the list or a specific work, go to

http://www.bach-digital.de/editor_form_search-simpleworks.xml?XSL.editor.source.new=true

The Emans list is one of the "Catalogue raisonné" choices on the English(?)  version of the page.  You can then add the number in the "Number in catalogue raisonné" box or just hit search to get a complete listing.

I knew that site, put it in me favourites list and then .... I never did anything with it, lazy bugger that I am.

(I'm still relying on BOOKS. ]

Thanks for reminding me; the site is based on the Göttinger Bach Catalogue of Sources and I think it's a very handy search assistant for any Bach lover!

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Anyone has any comments of this 3 disc sets from André Isoire re released by La
Dolce Volta?